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Old 11-25-2013, 11:44   #1
OhioGlockMan
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Soot on outside of cases

Expert Reloaders,

I have observed that when I use power pistol or blue dot in 10mm, the outside of the cases have the black soot, even with hot loads, and then I use unique in 10mm and the outside of the cases are always totally clean. Same thing with 357 magnum, H110, 296, blue dot, power pistol, 2400 in 357 magnum always leaves soot on cases even with hot loads, I use unique in 357 magnum and always get clean outside cases, about as clean as unfired.

Ok I just started using unique in 9mm with my new Gen4 Glock19 (LOVE THIS GUN!!!) and every single load left the outside of the cases super charred sooty. I used a 115 gr rainier RN, CCI 500 primer, mixed brass, 1.155 OAL, and made loads from 5.2 (1025 FPS) and worked up to 5.8 gr (1175 FPS). The 5.8 gr is a higher pressure load and still charred the outside of the cases with black soot. I don't mind this, I'm just wondering if you all have an idea why unique in 9mm does this while in every other caliber the outside cases are clean as can be.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:04   #2
Taterhead
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Usually that cleans up as pressure increases (with a better seal), so I am not certain about why BD and PP is not giving a good seal with hotter pressures. Could be some residual powder smoke/residue that is present when pressures drop.

On thing about BD, is that it gets extremely clean with hotter pressures -- at least in my experience. Curious about the 10mm load that you are using?

Last edited by Taterhead; 11-26-2013 at 12:05..
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Old 11-26-2013, 13:36   #3
WeeWilly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
Usually that cleans up as pressure increases (with a better seal), so I am not certain about why BD and PP is not giving a good seal with hotter pressures. Could be some residual powder smoke/residue that is present when pressures drop.

On thing about BD, is that it gets extremely clean with hotter pressures -- at least in my experience. Curious about the 10mm load that you are using?

I agree.


Slower powders need pressure to burn completely. I have found seating the bullet a little deeper (eliminating free space where possible) can help with ignition and combustion consistency when loading slower powders at below max loads. Just be careful using this prescription as you move to faster powders, as they are much more sensitive to seating depth.
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Old 11-27-2013, 09:16   #4
OhioGlockMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeWilly View Post
I agree.


Slower powders need pressure to burn completely. I have found seating the bullet a little deeper (eliminating free space where possible) can help with ignition and combustion consistency when loading slower powders at below max loads. Just be careful using this prescription as you move to faster powders, as they are much more sensitive to seating depth.
Wee Willy, I think your right on this because I shoot a lot of very low pressure 38 special loads in 357 magnum brass (only difference is the 357 brass is longer), so I deep seat the bullets in 357 mag brass to be the exact OAL and powder charge as it would be in a 38 special case, pressures are like 16,000, and I use zero crimp and the outside of the cases come out clean as a whistle. I also go thinking about it and the way the 9mm case is, the bullet is barely seated into the brass at all, and my loads were abover 30,000 PSI, so mabey they just pop out of the case before the powder fully builds pressure
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Old 11-27-2013, 09:20   #5
OhioGlockMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
Usually that cleans up as pressure increases (with a better seal), so I am not certain about why BD and PP is not giving a good seal with hotter pressures. Could be some residual powder smoke/residue that is present when pressures drop.

On thing about BD, is that it gets extremely clean with hotter pressures -- at least in my experience. Curious about the 10mm load that you are using?
Taterhead,

The 10mm loads I use are 10.5 gr blue dot OR 8.5 power pistol with a 180 gr, both go 1300 out of my 6 inch barrel, Also 9.5 power pistol for a hot 155 gr loading, moves a scorching 1500 FPS out of my 6 inch barrel, still makes the outside of the brass black thou. My Unique loads for 10mm are for light plinking, I use either 7.4 unique with a 155 gr slug (mid to high 1200 FPS from 6 inch barrel), or 8 gr unique with a 155 for low 1300 FPS from a 6 inch barrel, prob be low 1200's from standard 4.6 inch barrel. The unique loads always leave the outside of the brass totally clean, no soot.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:14   #6
WeeWilly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGlockMan View Post
Wee Willy, I think your right on this because I shoot a lot of very low pressure 38 special loads in 357 magnum brass (only difference is the 357 brass is longer), so I deep seat the bullets in 357 mag brass to be the exact OAL and powder charge as it would be in a 38 special case, pressures are like 16,000, and I use zero crimp and the outside of the cases come out clean as a whistle. I also go thinking about it and the way the 9mm case is, the bullet is barely seated into the brass at all, and my loads were abover 30,000 PSI, so mabey they just pop out of the case before the powder fully builds pressure

Another factor that I have pondered in the past was maybe the deeper seated bullet gave the case time to expand and seal before the bullet exits, hence keeping things cleaner as well.


I do know low pressures lead to unburned powder. I was fooling around with some low pressure 10mm loads the other day with Universal. They were going out at like 400fps (I had to really watch for impacts before squeezing the trigger again). On the lightest charges I would have fresh unburned tan flakes of Universal all over the bench in front of me.
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Old 11-27-2013, 21:29   #7
_The_Shadow
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Here are a few things to consider...

Was the 180 grain Bullets cast / jacketed / plated? Initial bullet diameters < = > 0.400".

What was their diameter prior to loading? If too small, case needed to expand more to fill chamber.

Did you use a Factory Crimp Die to finish the rounds? These can cause the bullet diameters to get smaller by over sizing the finished cartridges. Thus case diameter and bullet may allow some leakage.

What gun are you experiencing this situation from? Glocks have generous chamber diameters as do some others. Thus needing more case expansion to seal.
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:41   #8
OhioGlockMan
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The Shadow,

The 10mm bullets I load are both Rainier plated & Various Jacketed, I find that either way I get 1300 FPS with either 8.5 gr power pistol or 10.5 blue dot. I always shoot my 10mm with an aftermarket 6 inch lone wolf barrel by the way. I am aware of the Lee Factory Crimp die swaging the entire bullet down in diamater, so I got a Lee Taper Crimp die and just use that now for everything, works fine!
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Old 11-30-2013, 17:38   #9
orangeride
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Don't feel bad. I shoot a ton of 155gr lead SWC in my 10-40 conversion. I also get some black on the outside of the case.
6gr power pistol. LW barrel. But in all fairness that is a very light load.

Last edited by orangeride; 11-30-2013 at 17:49..
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Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42