GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-29-2000, 08:47   #41
Kaliburz
Senior Member
 
Kaliburz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: North West
Posts: 388
poochg,

It's just a starting point I would say. If you saw the last post there by "benchjewler" on 6/28, all he needs is to have Kurt cut 22BR dies and have a barrel made and start resizing 22BR brass ----> 22BRS.
As Rusty said, they're working on one for a 45. The 308 case, which was the parent of the 22BR, is the parent of the 22 BRS (Bench Rest Short)as it's being called.
I'm not an expert on this stuff. But the only way to find out how much case capacity it'll have is for someone to make the brass and do that "water test" as I think I heard to find out the volume.
The case is strong, and for experimenting, you want that, at least that's what I would want personally. Later, if this round catches on, and testing shows that the case pressues are lower/significatly lower then what the parent case can handle, the case can be redesigned, increasing volume. At that point, someone could ask Starline or another brass maker to mass produce it. But in the testing phase....... This stuff takes time and $$$$$$.
It took time to for us to find out the world was round, and it took time for us to get to the moon, one small step at a time. It'll take time to get the 22BRS tested. (The Boz went through a lot of testing....those damn Brits spent lots of pounds on it I bet.)

Here's a dumb thought....I think it's dumb, but..... Any one think of making a Boz case duplicate, except for the caliber? Make it into a .17 caliber (.172"). A little small....

Kaliburz
Kaliburz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2000, 21:24   #42
Tazz10m
Mod Aerator
 
Tazz10m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: On the beach with girls in bikinis
Posts: 6,278
Still trying to find the right company to make the sabots, and i am also still fine tuning the sabot design before i call them. If i do it right i believe we can actually get some fairly decent accuracy out of it.

------------------
The only thing that should come between you, and any gun... is comfort... Get Agrip!

Your first and best weapon and/or tool is your mind.

Warning, anything I write is intended to manipulate you into using your mind.
Tazz10m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2000, 13:47   #43
Tamara
Immoderate
 
Tamara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Hoosieropolis
Posts: 3,599
Chatting with Lendringser today he brought up some good, if somewhat killjoy, points. Will a saboted round have enough spin to stabilize out of a pistol? For defense use, you gotta worry about the discarded sabot bits. They'll definitely put an eye out inside 7 yards. Just some points that may or may not have already been considered...

------------------
Tamara's House of Weapons: If we can't kill it, it's immortal.
10 Ring #2910, Wheelhouse #6254455, Club .40*&*, Top Guns *.357sig* club, Big Dawg #447
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
Tamara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2000, 19:36   #44
Tazz10m
Mod Aerator
 
Tazz10m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: On the beach with girls in bikinis
Posts: 6,278
The spin looks to be about perfect, but we will of course have to test it, and the sabot is designed to hold together and "parachute" away allowing the bullet to continue forward without effecting flight. I'm not sure it would be ideal as a hostage rescue round, and as for using it as a general purpose personal defense round, i would rather have a heavier bigger mushrooming round...

Now on the other hand as a "Special Purpose" round for special vermin and other "recreational" uses, i think it has LOTS of potential... The 10 Ring

One more REALLY cool thing... you could also alternate rounds with this little set up.... oooooooooo.... The 10 Ring

------------------
The only thing that should come between you, and any gun... is comfort... Get Agrip!

Your first and best weapon and/or tool is your mind.

Warning, anything I write is intended to manipulate you into using your mind.
Tazz10m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2000, 21:57   #45
Kaliburz
Senior Member
 
Kaliburz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: North West
Posts: 388
Tazz,

When they're ready, I'd like to purchase some. May not have a 10mm, yet, but I guess I can experiment in my......40

Kaliburz
Kaliburz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2000, 14:17   #46
Shred
Senior Member
 
Shred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 148
There's no way a real US patent on the .224 BOZ cartridge is going to stand up (CD probably cheaped out and filed for a Design patent, which covers the _exact_ design, but change an angle or two and you're scot-free). That would be good enough for them-- with that patent they can control BOZ ammo and barrel manufacturers. Good for us too, we can do what we want.

-Shred (played with a .224 BOZ once)
Shred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2000, 11:47   #47
Kaliburz
Senior Member
 
Kaliburz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: North West
Posts: 388
Shred,

Intersting.....very interesting. Gonna have to do more research.

You played with one!!! Lucky Dog. How much "playing"....got to shoot it or just look at it? Come on, let us know.....

Kaliburz
Kaliburz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2000, 17:38   #48
poochg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,180
double tap but I held off on the mozenbeek!

[This message has been edited by poochg (edited 07-17-2000).]
poochg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2000, 17:39   #49
poochg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,180
Quote:
Originally posted by Shred:
There's no way a real US patent on the .224 BOZ cartridge is going to stand up (CD probably cheaped out and filed for a Design patent, which covers the _exact_ design, but change an angle or two and you're scot-free). That would be good enough for them-- with that patent they can control BOZ ammo and barrel manufacturers. Good for us too, we can do what we want.

-Shred (played with a .224 BOZ once)
First of all I'm jealous.....Now I want to know every little detail.......

Well, tell us man......was it the out of the 1911, the Glock the mp5, did you just play with the ammo, like juggling it, what kind of play, where were you, can I go there? (you know stuff like that man) If the Glock, how was it modified?

poochg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2000, 17:17   #50
Shred
Senior Member
 
Shred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 148
Well, all I got to do was fiddle with the pistol (a modified 6" STI Hunter-- rebarreled and had the funky Briley front-end), and some of the brass/loaded rounds. At that time there were only about a dozen or so loaded rounds in the country, so I didn't get to shoot any The 10 Ring. Customs had decided that the reloading dies were some sort of barrel and weren't letting them in.

I did talk to somebody that had shot it and he said recoil was pretty light (a .22 cal bull-barrel will do that)

The round looks even wierder and stubbier in person.

- Shred
Shred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2000, 17:20   #51
Shred
Senior Member
 
Shred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 148
Well, all I got to do was fiddle with the pistol (a modified 6" STI Hunter-- rebarreled and had the funky Briley front-end), and some of the brass/loaded rounds. At that time there were only about a dozen or so loaded rounds in the country, so I didn't get to shoot any The 10 Ring. Customs had decided that the reloading dies were some sort of barrel and weren't letting them in.

I did talk to somebody that had shot it and he said recoil was pretty light (a .22 cal bull-barrel will do that)

The round looks even wierder and stubbier in person.

- Shred
Shred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2000, 12:00   #52
poochg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,180
Tazzzzzz,

Give us an update.......
poochg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2000, 18:07   #53
Tazz10m
Mod Aerator
 
Tazz10m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: On the beach with girls in bikinis
Posts: 6,278
Still looking into who is going to make the sabot. I got it designed, now i just got to get it made...

------------------
The only thing that should come between you, and any gun... is comfort... Get Agrip!

Your first and best weapon and/or tool is your mind.

Warning, anything I write is intended to manipulate you into using your mind.
Tazz10m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2000, 20:30   #54
poochg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,180
Well, what is required of the producer, what qualifications are needed to produce this item, injection molding, ???? poured molding? what kind of company should be looking for, we have many a hightec company in Southern Calif and we have a lot of resourses here on GT!!! Let us know, we want to help.......

poochg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2000, 11:55   #55
Tazz10m
Mod Aerator
 
Tazz10m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: On the beach with girls in bikinis
Posts: 6,278
Ultra precision, for one. If the sabot is going to "peel" away from the spinning bullet/sabot combo without touching the bullet and effecting it as it peels away the sabot is going to have to be absolutely precise and balanced all the way around. At those speeds, the slightest little difference in the thickness or shape of the plastic could cause the sabot to "bump" the bullet as it peels away.

Are there any CAD/CAM freaks among us?

Also, sooner or later the issue of money is going to come up when it comes to the actual mold making and molding of the sabot. Cost of plastic will be next to nothing, but the making of the mold and time on the molding equipment is going to have to cost something... i dont know how much of that we can get "donated" or traded for whatever. I would like to see this whole project done as a 10Ring group thing, non-profit, with the proceeds going to a worthy cause. Everyone involved could get credit for it, with marketing exposure for the companies that help. I think it would also bring alot more people into the world of versatile 10mm... and all the good stuff that goes with that! The 10 Ring

------------------
The only thing that should come between you, and any gun... is comfort... Get Agrip!

Your first and best weapon and/or tool is your mind.

Warning, anything I write is intended to manipulate you into using your mind.
Tazz10m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2000, 18:13   #56
HocKaLugi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 253
I'll help. But I want my name to be on the case headstamp.
HocKaLugi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2000, 05:37   #57
Q-Ball
Dismember
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: The Twilight Zone
Posts: 1,597
Hey Tazz.
If you ever decide to get away from the sabot idea let me know. I have a buddy who is quite the machinist, he could easily cut a chamber reamer to your specifications. I know thats only one link in the chain, but it is one step closer.
Later
Q


------------------
We are the people our parents warned us about.
Q-Ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2000, 19:06   #58
Tazz10m
Mod Aerator
 
Tazz10m's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: On the beach with girls in bikinis
Posts: 6,278
Hock, would that be ".223 Hock"? Nice to dream, huh?

Q-Ball, your offer is SO tantalizing! But, developing a necked down cartridge could be looked at as being a copy-cat... and might even bring patent infringement litigation swarming right out of the wood work... so, i think it might just be better to stick with the sabot... hey... can your buddy make sizing dies for the brass? The 10 Ring

------------------
The only thing that should come between you, and any gun... is comfort... Get Agrip!

Your first and best weapon and/or tool is your mind.

Warning, anything I write is intended to manipulate you into using your mind.
Tazz10m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2000, 12:57   #59
Rusty Phillips
Senior Member
 
Rusty Phillips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Southeast
Posts: 6,178
any chance on getting a 10mm to .25 caliber sabot as well? (didnt think so)

any other thoughts on the 25 instead of .224?

Im concerned that most available .224 (rifle) bullets are too long (longer than similar wts. in 25 cal)....

seems that the 25 acp 50 grain fmj bullet would be cheap, have helacious penetration at the velocities attainable, and allow more powder (cause it is shorter) than a .224 bullet of the same weight.

does anyone make a round nose FMJ .224 (for the 218 bee or the hornet or ????) I guess it would be a 40 grainer for the 218 bee..... what kind of cost are they per hundred?

sorry for rambling, just curious.
Rusty Phillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2000, 14:34   #60
Fredalso
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Good point ( The 10 Ring) Rusty -
A .224 55gr FMJBT is around 0.740" long, and would need some plastic behind it, while a 180gr JHP is just about 0.640". But 25ACP bullets may be constructed lightly. (I don't have ANY to check.)

And the 40gr .224 bullets I've found are all designed for expansion, so that's a tradeoff as well.

And as you imply, the bullet nose shape, and the sabot shape, must play together well in order to get good feed reliability.

Also, rifling twist was mentioned before. I wonder if the sabots will take the Glock rifling well, with the accelleration they'll get. If so, then the 9.8" twist is fine. But many aftermarket barrels use 16" twist.

Details, details, details.
Lots of room for experimentation, unfortunately.
Fredalso is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:14.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 722
204 Members
518 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31