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Old 11-08-2004, 21:46   #161
Tazz10m
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I wouldn't count on Sammi being too interested in anything having to do with a real caliber until he finally wakes up and buys a 10mm. Sammi is just a well taken care of 10 Ring dungeon slave boy. We just like to make him feel special because that way we get more work out of him. Sammi is also into S&M so he actually loves the abuse anyway.

As for the 223XR, i think it's more than likely going to boil down to me finally getting around to hand making some sabots which MCNETT can then load up, and we can then dial them in to proper specs. After that it boils down to who and how they can be mass produced for as little money as possible. This last part is the tricky part as it will not be "cheap". Since "a profit making" was/has not been in the planning so far, it will be really interesting to see what kind of "donations" (money, time, resources, etc.,) will come the way of the 223XR.
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Old 01-03-2005, 00:59   #162
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Just dragging the thread into the new year.

Someone was asking about the 224Boz and I'm just checking for progress.

Oh well.
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Old 02-10-2005, 22:07   #163
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.223XR OFFICIAL UPDATE!

The .223XR is alive well and progressing nicely. Preliminary drawings, designed, engineered, and drawn by yours truly, are now in the hands of the machinist, a 10 Ring member, no less. The persons, except for yours truly, doing this will remain secret until the project is complete and it's time to take a bow. The first of the prototype .223XR rounds are in progress being milled to perfection. They will then loaded into nice fresh 10mm brass... soon to be test fired by yours truly. Design will then be refined and adjustments made until properly dialed in. We will load no 10 until it's time. We are pushing for a 55 grainer kicking out to 2305 fps with a standard G20 barrel, and 2435 fps with a 6". Of course, these velocities are still just theoretical until we actually do it. We think we can do it and maybe can even better those velocities. Heavy emphasis is being placed on proper spin rate and petal separation aerodynamics in order to maximize accuracy. The .223XR is also designed in such a way that will idealize chamber pressure and reduce or eliminate any problems with barrel fouling. We are off to a very good start. We have the technology. The 10 Ringer doing the machining is also an expert in making plastic injection molds and will make them as soon as the design is finalized. This will take a little time and patience, but will be worth it. This project has also led to other fun little projectile projects to be announced... but first comes the .223XR.

We are on it! ;f
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Old 02-11-2005, 15:28   #164
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Tazz,

thanks for all your efforts on this cartridge. Like many others I have been considering purchasing a FN 5.7, not due to need but just because it's so cool. $800+ for the gun and $40/box for ammo is just too much for something like that. I will gladly pony up for a .223 XR conversion barrel and some Doubletap ammo, however. I think there are many other G20 owners who will as well.

Keep us updated!
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Old 02-12-2005, 00:07   #165
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Conversion barrel??? We don't need no stinking conversion barrels! The .223XR is designed to be fired out of standard "10mm Auto" barrels! That means it will work out of any 10mm firearm in good shape... G29, G20, Delta Elites, MecTec CCU's, MP5/10mm's....... ;f It's also looking like it may even be possible to use these same sabots in 40 S&W brass and barrels, but we are not holding our breath on that one. It may be necessary to use shorter bullets than 55 grainers if .40 S&W is the aim. Also, if going the 40 route, the velocities will be no where near as fast as the 10.

Did i mention that the sabots will be made available alone for reloaders to roll their own? Oh yeah, baby! Not just preloaded complete cartridges.

Being a 10 Ring member DOES have its advantages! ;f
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Old 02-12-2005, 05:32   #166
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OMG I think I am having a feeling that I have not had in a long time.I think it is time to get the G20 and Smith Brothers,and Mr. Kimber ready for action again
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Old 02-12-2005, 09:11   #167
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Holy cow I had no idea the .223 XR could be fired out of a standard 10mm barrel! I thought it would need a conversion barrel like 9x25mm.

This caliber will be a success.
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Old 02-12-2005, 11:25   #168
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Wow, we've got some talented folk here!
This is a much better idea than 224boz. I'll take 2!;f
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Old 02-12-2005, 15:15   #169
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The only thing that i can think of that the .224 Boz might have over the .223XR is accuracy. It can be pretty difficult to make a bullet carried by a sabot super accurate. But then, when it all gets down to the nitty-gritty and it's intended purpose the .223XR really doesn't need to be 1 MOA accurate. If we can get 2 inch groups at 100 yds, i'll dance a little jig! If we can get 1 inch groups at 100 yrds, i'll have a screaming orgasm and pass out! ;f
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Celebrating 20 Years of helping good people get AGripô!

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Old 02-12-2005, 15:26   #170
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Heck, if it will stay on COM at a 100 yards out of my 29 it will do everything I need it to.
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Old 02-12-2005, 16:39   #171
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Crap, I can't get 1" groups at 25 yards, much less 100. It's a pistol. I would be happy with 3" groups at 25 yards.

If I have a 100 yard shot where I need to put the bullet into 1-2", I am reaching for something with a stock.
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Old 02-14-2005, 23:56   #172
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Sweet.
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Old 02-22-2005, 01:38   #173
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Tazz,

I would be very interested in some Sabots and loaded ammo.
Please keep us informed!


Thanks,

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Old 03-11-2005, 13:08   #174
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Just an idea here and not to throw you guys off...

Why place the sabot behind the round? While I carried in South Africa I had .45 ACP rounds that had a blue plastic cap over a steel, pointed core. It looked something like this:

I can't remember the quoted velocities, but I know it was more than 1400fps - they were also deadly accurate. I can remember knocking soda cans off a fence at around 25 yds off hand. Sounds a little better than the accuracy of other sobated rounds. Imagine what a high powered 10mm sabot like this can do?
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Old 03-18-2005, 23:53   #175
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How would that work?

When a sabot is behind the bullet it effectively acts as an oversized gasket that ties the pressure of the expanding gasses to the projectile. If the sabot were in front, wouldn't it just shoot out of the barrel by itself, leaving the projectile behind to tumble out of control in the gasses?
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Old 03-19-2005, 00:06   #176
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Re: How would that work?

Quote:
Originally posted by Sturmcrow
When a sabot is behind the bullet it effectively acts as an oversized gasket that ties the pressure of the expanding gasses to the projectile. If the sabot were in front, wouldn't it just shoot out of the barrel by itself, leaving the projectile behind to tumble out of control in the gasses?
Basically, yes.

The sabot also has to do a bit of stabilizing of the bullet and then let the bullet go on its own without upsetting it or slowing it down.
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Celebrating 20 Years of helping good people get AGripô!

Find out what all the fuzz is about... seriously... get AGrip!

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Official AGripô Manufacturer Website

AGripô Installation Video

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Never let anyone who is clueless about defense tell you what you can and can't do to protect yourself and others.

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Old 03-26-2005, 09:13   #177
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Very interesting thread. I can certainly appreciate some of the things involved in getting to this point.

New G29 might need to eat some of that one of these days ... ' Got a chrono and a buddy with Dillon 550B. Poor guy still shoots a Sig in .40. Maybe there is hope for him too.
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Old 09-09-2005, 04:37   #178
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Update?
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Old 09-16-2005, 06:54   #179
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I'm really interested in this project myself. Any ideas of when there might be an update? Thanks for all your work on this idea.
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Old 11-24-2005, 02:13   #180
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I'd rather have a .30...

My .02,
I'd rather have a 10mm necked down to .30 than .224. The use of already available sabots would facilitate .224 bullets. I think something like the .30 Armco or 7.82 L-W would be really nifty for extended range pistol shooting as well as soft armor penetration with better terminal results that any .22 varmint round derivative. If one could mimick the 7.62x39 to fit in a 10mm Auto envelope, I think it would do what the .224 BOZ and 5.7x28 endeavored to accomplish, only better, with the option of a small-bore projectile if the legions of varmints should attack.
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