GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2004, 00:14   #51
ColoradoGlocker
Former Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,693
.
ColoradoGlocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2004, 09:26   #52
Glock-N-Fun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,706
CG,

Thank's,i keep forgetting that there are glockateers on this board that haven't been around firearms that long.
Glock-N-Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2004, 19:43   #53
mballai
Senior Member
 
mballai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: IL
Posts: 726
I believe the issue of Glock KBs that are not absolutely ammo related, are probably more how a gun handles high pressure. I gave up a much liked Glock 30 when the 45 KBs started surfacing. No I didn't believe it was going to KB, but guns don't always scale up the same: compare a .40 HP with the original in 9mm. I am not sure if they can beef up a polymer frame in the event you get some off spec ammo. My take is that Glocks are best in 9mm packages. If nothing else stay away from cheapo ammo.
__________________
Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead

"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." William F. Buckley Jr.
mballai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2004, 22:17   #54
Ulysses
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,451
Any firearm can fail if it gets old, is misused, wears out, used out of design, or is loaded with dangerous ammunition.

Glocks require correct handling, and ammunition which complies with the specifications.

If you push them beyond their capabilities beyond the break point you get KBs....

Just use it correctly it will serve you well.

No reason to drink kool-aid and chant...
Ulysses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2004, 23:02   #55
philkryder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Santa Barbara, CA, 93105 USA
Posts: 2,258
Send a message via AIM to philkryder
Quote:
Originally posted by Ulysses
Any firearm can fail if it gets old, is misused, wears out, used out of design, or is loaded with dangerous ammunition.

Glocks require correct handling, and ammunition which complies with the specifications.

If you push them beyond their capabilities beyond the break point you get KBs....

Just use it correctly it will serve you well.

No reason to drink kool-aid and chant...

???
__________________
40 club #137
philkryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 06:54   #56
fabricator
Got Biodiesel?
 
fabricator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Grand Haven, MI
Posts: 16,361


Quote:
Originally posted by Ulysses
Any firearm can fail if it gets old, is misused, wears out, used out of design, or is loaded with dangerous ammunition.

Glocks require correct handling, and ammunition which complies with the specifications.

If you push them beyond their capabilities beyond the break point you get KBs....

Just use it correctly it will serve you well.

No reason to drink kool-aid and chant...
No reason to go all sheepleish either.
fabricator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 08:57   #57
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by Ulysses
No reason to drink kool-aid and chant...
mmmmmm, kool-aid mmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aid ;f

Sugar free, of course ;b
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2004, 22:43   #58
Glock4Life
Senior Member
 
Glock4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,546
Well done post by WGA. I'm glad they finally stickied the KB issue. Being a graduate of both H.S. and college physics, I must concur with the original poster. Oh, and I'll take my Kool-Aid with a touch of Grey Goose please.
__________________
Molôn Labé!
>>.25 Trigger Job Link<<
Glock4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2004, 14:05   #59
petej88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: U.S.
Posts: 1,561


Quote:
Originally posted by sjstill
mmmmmm, kool-aid mmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aid ;f

Sugar free, of course ;b
I cannot get this catchy tune out of my head, "kool-aidmmmmmmm".;c
__________________
http://www.45gap.com
petej88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2004, 10:52   #60
BrokenArrow
Senior Member
 
BrokenArrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lost In Space
Posts: 6,085
Not bad!

Not as good as Dean's kB FAQ, but not bad.

Unsupported chambers may contribute to case failures, and case failures may contribute to kBs? Beats me. More support is better than less (until it interferes w reliability anyway) but enough is all anybody really needs. Glocks have enough for the FBI, DEA, Marshals, ISP, etc.

Good point though. Many of ruptured bbls I have seen (in Glocks, USPs, 1911s, Berettas...) did not rupture at the bottom position where the case had the least support. Many were on the sides or tops of the chamber... and lets not forget "38 Super Face" in 1911s was around long before kBs in Glocks, and 38 revolvers blew up plenty of cylinders too.

I _still_ think (but can't prove) the 40 cases were, and still are, failing more in all guns than the 9/45 ever did though. The 40 case may be closer to the edge where it gets interesting when you or the manufacturer mess up enough? AND the Glocks may be closer to the edge than some other designs too for a variety of reasons that are not "defects". So what? Live w it; plenty of good benefits that outweigh that risk (if any). ;b
BrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2004, 13:37   #61
gary newport
Senior Member
 
gary newport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: People's Republic of California
Posts: 12,273
At my regular range, a display case hangs on the wall. Mounted in that display case are two big Smith N-frames and a bull-strong Ruger single-action. These revolvers are in very sad shape, with bowed and broken topstraps, and cylinders that are missing big chunks of steel.

An overpressure event can happen in any gun. I've never asked about these particular revolvers, but I can imagine something along the lines of "well, I was loading my usual charge of Unique, but I forgot I had Bullseye in the powder measure", or "I had a bullet stuck in the barrel so I decided just to shoot it out".

Be careful out there!
__________________
A forum with WalterGa is a more informative, funnier, and more interesting place.

G17, G17RTF2, G19, G21, G21SF (2), G26, G30, G30SF, G34 (2), G37 (2), G38, G39
gary newport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2004, 05:43   #62
Roundeyesamurai
Sensei Member
 
Roundeyesamurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,773
Send a message via AIM to Roundeyesamurai Send a message via Yahoo to Roundeyesamurai
philkryder:

Quote:
Any new news from Portland? Do they really continue to use Glocks?
To the best of my knowledge, yes, Glock apparently took back all of Portland Police Bureau's G21s and supplied them with G17s (G17 is what most PPB officers carry already, G21 was approved for those officers who chose to carry it instead of a G17).
Roundeyesamurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2004, 11:06   #63
petej88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: U.S.
Posts: 1,561


With all due respect for the Portland City Police, it all sounds too much like a heavy handed budgeting maneuver by the City of Portland. I would not be surprised if someone got a pay raise/promotion for this ploy to standardize on one caliber at the expense of another company.
__________________
http://www.45gap.com
petej88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2004, 11:09   #64
BrokenArrow
Senior Member
 
BrokenArrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lost In Space
Posts: 6,085
kD!?

kaDrop!

This Teutonic polymer wonder was just dropped by an Austin PD (TX) officer during an arrest scuffle and it broke into pieces! Have another of a USP that was dropped and broke like this too... ;b
BrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2004, 11:17   #65
philkryder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Santa Barbara, CA, 93105 USA
Posts: 2,258
Send a message via AIM to philkryder
Re: kD!?

Quote:
Originally posted by BrokenArrow
kaDrop!

This Teutonic polymer wonder was just dropped and it broke into pieces! Have another of a USP that was dropped and broke like this too... ;b
how is this relevant?
__________________
40 club #137
philkryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2004, 11:35   #66
BrokenArrow
Senior Member
 
BrokenArrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lost In Space
Posts: 6,085
Gadzooks!

I posted a pic, do I have to draw ya a picture too!?

It's relevant in that stuff happens to _everybody_ sooner or later. A Walther P99 had a PMC case failure on a local range here and it cracked along the same lines as the one above, but held together.

Some Swiss cops had their new SIG P229s fracture slides and bounce pieces off the shooters just like some US military Beretta M9s did... Baltimore County PD broke 52 of their SIG P226s... HK USP compacts have been breaking firing pins for years... all excellent guns too.

Glocks do break. For a variety of reasons. So do other guns. You can worry/post excessively about it like they do on this forum, or just ignore/ live with it like they do on the other forums.

We don' need no stinkin' kB FAQ and/or primer no more than nobody else does! ;b
BrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2004, 11:43   #67
philkryder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Santa Barbara, CA, 93105 USA
Posts: 2,258
Send a message via AIM to philkryder
Re: Gadzooks!

Quote:
Originally posted by BrokenArrow
I posted a pic, do I have to draw ya a picture too!?

It's relevant in that stuff happens to _everybody_ sooner or later. A Walther P99 had a PMC case failure on a local range here and it cracked along the same lines as the one above, but held together.

Some Swiss cops had their new SIG P229s fracture slides and bounce pieces off the shooters just like some US military Beretta M9s did... Baltimore County PD broke 52 of their SIG P226s... HK USP compacts have been breaking firing pins for years... all excellent guns too.

Glocks do break. For a variety of reasons. So do other guns. You can worry/post excessively about it like they do on this forum, or just ignore/ live with it like they do on the other forums.

We don' need no stinkin' kB FAQ and/or primer no more than nobody else does! ;b
Thanks - your humor was obviously too subtle for me.
When you posted a non-Glock that had KB's and then said that it failed due to dropping, I couldn't see how it was relevant.

It's one thing for "stuff to happen" - It's quite another for someone to claim it is due to a design failure.

If you feel this thread bores you, just feel free to hold down on the alt key and press the left arrow.
Phil
__________________
40 club #137
philkryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2004, 14:39   #68
Roundeyesamurai
Sensei Member
 
Roundeyesamurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,773
Send a message via AIM to Roundeyesamurai Send a message via Yahoo to Roundeyesamurai
petej88:

Personally, this sounds more like knee-jerk reaction than calculated ploy to standardize a particular cartridge.

A great number of police agencies standardize one cartridge for duty use, and if PPB wanted merely to do that, they could've done it simply enough by ordering officers to turn in their .45s a long time ago.

I think that the brass passed a brick when they were informed of "gun explosions" and implemented the first and (to them) most obvious reaction- replace the model that "exploded" with another model already in use, which hadn't "exploded".

"And, make it fast, the media is gonna be all over this!"
Roundeyesamurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2004, 02:25   #69
Justin1584
Snow
 
Justin1584's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: California
Posts: 3,425
Send a message via AIM to Justin1584
Re: kD!?

Quote:
Originally posted by BrokenArrow
kaDrop!

This Teutonic polymer wonder was just dropped by an Austin PD (TX) officer during an arrest scuffle and it broke into pieces! Have another of a USP that was dropped and broke like this too... ;b
NO WAY ;P Please post that USP pic.
__________________
Beretta M92 FS Brigadier Inox - Mauser M24/47 - Mossberg 500A Persuader - Smith & Wesson 629 - Glock 19 - M4 Carbine - Parker-Hale .30-06 - Springfield Mil Spec 1911A1 - Colt Mustang .380
Justin1584 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2004, 09:31   #70
BrokenArrow
Senior Member
 
BrokenArrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lost In Space
Posts: 6,085
Bored!?

No way! I think this is interesting as heck.

Here's the broken USP pic. IIRC, the full size USP went into the plastic case OK after shooting. Case was dropped, when it was opened later, gun came out looking like this.

Obviously a design defect that needs attention, unless ya think these are anomalies and/or it's the only time it happened and I just happened to run across the pics?

Now who's gonna write that Walther/HK kD primer? ;b
BrokenArrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2004, 14:49   #71
BigDozer66
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lufkin,Texas,USA
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally posted by sjstill
mmmmmm, kool-aid mmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aidmmmmmm, kool-aid ;f

Sugar free, of course ;b
Sugar Free?

Man that stuff will stunt your growth!

Hey Kool-Aid!

BigDozer66
BigDozer66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2004, 16:11   #72
JSK333
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Posts: 1,206
Send a message via AIM to JSK333
One other question is: if the round is charged to a point higher than it is designed to handle, will it matter much in the long (or short) run how much case support it has?

I would venture: it will blow the case, regardless, because the pressure is past the point of what the case can handle (A + B = C, so Z is irrelevant).

I wonder if the difference between blowing out mags and mag releases, etc., and splitting the barrel, is due to how much bottom support the chamber has.

More support = split barrel, less support, blown out parts. Thoughts?
__________________
Solomon -- 10mm Auto & 7.62x39

"Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other." -John Adams
JSK333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2004, 17:23   #73
Roundeyesamurai
Sensei Member
 
Roundeyesamurai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,773
Send a message via AIM to Roundeyesamurai Send a message via Yahoo to Roundeyesamurai
JSK333:

I do believe that's what WalterGA was referring to with his "pop-off valve" analogy earlier.
Roundeyesamurai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2004, 09:22   #74
shootingbuff
Senior Member
 
shootingbuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,763
Quote:
Originally posted by Metric
To reiterate my non sequitur, you have defined a "KB" in such a way that most people will never see one. That doesn't change the fact that an unusually large number of people experience catastrophic failure, due in part to unsupported chambers, and report them here on this message board.

I suppose one of us should mention "Solomon juice" at this point, right?
FLASH - A KB is not a case failure. With a case failure it is something wrong with the ammo. It is a fact that a more fully supported chamber is less likely to have a case failure, but when things go boom it is better to have the case go first then to hope that the more fully supported chamber holds all that pressure.

Now for the rub. A KB is not a case failure. Just in case amy did not get that in WGA's post.

sb
__________________
"Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty"
Thomas Jefferson
shootingbuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2004, 11:42   #75
KNOW 1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 356
SO,...

is a case failure due to a particular point on the case, which just happens to line up with the unsuported part of the barrel, or is it the entire circumference of the case and any part would fail where unsupported. If the former is true, could it fail at any point on the circumference of the case? If so, could a case failure occuring somewhere other than the unsupported part cause a Kb? If the latter is true, then I see the point, "a case failure is not a Kb."

Just don't know how case failures occur.
KNOW 1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 14:22.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,111
371 Members
740 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42