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Old 12-18-2006, 07:39   #221
SKeefe
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I am really curious as to why popping a dog on its butt as a method of discipline is discouraged, especially as compared to the "Grab that tongue with your thumb, and pin it to the lower jaw until you get a yelp" recommended above.

I definitely understand not doing it with "negative energy" or out of anger, but I don't understand why it can't be used as a method of discipline for dogs.
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:14   #222
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Quote:
Originally posted by SKeefe
I am really curious as to why popping a dog on its butt as a method of discipline is discouraged, especially as compared to the "Grab that tongue with your thumb, and pin it to the lower jaw until you get a yelp" recommended above.

I definitely understand not doing it with "negative energy" or out of anger, but I don't understand why it can't be used as a method of discipline for dogs.
Its very simple once you learn the dog language. When used as discipline, that has negative energy attached and the dog will learn not to trust you because you aren't speaking dog to him/her. When is the last time you saw a dog reach and swipe at another dog as a correction? How about never. It just doesn't happen. Dogs use their mouths as people use their hands.

If you can grab the scruff in the back of the neck of a dog, that can be a very useful correction. Why? Because that is how the mother of the pack corrected all the puppies in the litter.
I encourage you to read up on this and explore it yourself. The book I mentioned above is a great start.

Mike
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:21   #223
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Quote:
Originally posted by G20man32904
Its very simple once you learn the dog language. When used as discipline, that has negative energy attached and the dog will learn not to trust you because you aren't speaking dog to him/her. When is the last time you saw a dog reach and swipe at another dog as a correction? How about never. It just doesn't happen. Dogs use their mouths as people use their hands.

If you can grab the scruff in the back of the neck of a dog, that can be a very useful correction. Why? Because that is how the mother of the pack corrected all the puppies in the litter.
I encourage you to read up on this and explore it yourself. The book I mentioned above is a great start.

Mike
So, do you think it would work if I got down on all fours and bit my dog when he does something bad? Just kidding of course.

Honestly though, thanks a lot for the info, I've always wondered that and now I know.

edit - BTW, the link to the book isn't working, is this the book you are referring to? http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Puppy-.../dp/0316578398

Also, at what age is a dog no longer a "puppy?" I'm sure this varies for different types of dogs, but I was wondering (my wife's maltese is 8 months old and there is still much more training I would like to do with him).
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Old 12-18-2006, 14:45   #224
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hey i hear you and the dog whisperer (i like that show) talk about about negative and positive energy? can you explain that to me? are we talking about tone in voice? or something else
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Old 12-18-2006, 17:26   #225
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Quote:
Originally posted by SKeefe
So, do you think it would work if I got down on all fours and bit my dog when he does something bad? Just kidding of course.

Honestly though, thanks a lot for the info, I've always wondered that and now I know.

edit - BTW, the link to the book isn't working, is this the book you are referring to? http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Puppy-.../dp/0316578398

Also, at what age is a dog no longer a "puppy?" I'm sure this varies for different types of dogs, but I was wondering (my wife's maltese is 8 months old and there is still much more training I would like to do with him).
So now you know!
Thanks for letting me know the link was broken. It did work

Um a Maltese goes thru the "teenages" stage from 8months till maybe 14-15 months. So you have plenty of time, and the chewing stage should be about over for you.
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Old 12-18-2006, 17:32   #226
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Quote:
Originally posted by CentralMsGunFan
hey i hear you and the dog whisperer (i like that show) talk about about negative and positive energy? can you explain that to me? are we talking about tone in voice? or something else
Positive and negative energy is what you are feeling when you pick up the leash. If it's been a long day at the office and you come home to the wife screaming at you for something or another, you are not going to be in a very good mood. Whatever you feel, think, travels directly down the leash into the dog. So if you are not confident, then neither will the dog. So hold your head up high, always have a direction of travel and a destination and KNOW you will get there.

Mike
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Old 12-19-2006, 07:23   #227
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Quote:
Originally posted by G20man32904
Um a Maltese goes thru the "teenages" stage from 8months till maybe 14-15 months. So you have plenty of time, and the chewing stage should be about over for you.
I certainly hope so. It actually seems like it just started. I mean, he has always chewed on his toys, bones, etc. but all of a sudden in the past month he has started chewing stuff that he shouldn't. Hopefully you are right and he will stop soon!
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Old 12-22-2006, 23:27   #228
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thanks for this thread, been learning alot.

anyways have a 2ish year old pointer? mix from the local pound.he seems to be a very smart dog, but is very energetic and it seems somewhat stubborn, or more like he pretends not to listen to me.

guess i have to post a pic:
Woof Memorial Critter's Corner

he has 2 main problems I would like to fix
1. he does not always come when called, he will look at me, i am positive he understand then he will run off, and around the neighborhood we will go. Sometimes he'll give up, othertimes i 'll go in and let him come home.

should i do the 30-50 foot leash method described earlier?

2. we keep him in a crate when we are not home, and he will scratch at the floor, and bark incessintantly. you described correcting him, and staring him down but a can was mentioned and i do not know what that was for? He also has the same problem when in the car ( when we first got him he pooped all over my car) will this be remedied along with leaving home?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

-casey
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Old 12-23-2006, 12:11   #229
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Quote:
Originally posted by blackbeast
thanks for this thread, been learning alot.

anyways have a 2ish year old pointer? mix from the local pound.he seems to be a very smart dog, but is very energetic and it seems somewhat stubborn, or more like he pretends not to listen to me.

guess i have to post a pic:
Woof Memorial Critter's Corner

he has 2 main problems I would like to fix
1. he does not always come when called, he will look at me, i am positive he understand then he will run off, and around the neighborhood we will go. Sometimes he'll give up, othertimes i 'll go in and let him come home.

should i do the 30-50 foot leash method described earlier?

2. we keep him in a crate when we are not home, and he will scratch at the floor, and bark incessintantly. you described correcting him, and staring him down but a can was mentioned and i do not know what that was for? He also has the same problem when in the car ( when we first got him he pooped all over my car) will this be remedied along with leaving home?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

-casey
Casey
#1 is on the money, do not let him out without being on leash for the next couple of weeks. Also, use treats to make him come to you. It MUST be a positive experience for him to come back to you.
In other words, don't call him to you for something he did "wrong".

#2 The can is nothing more that a noise maker. I like to use Fosters oil can beers (+ its a good excuse to have a beer ). Rinse can thoroughly, put about 15-20 pennies in it and tape the top shut, when he gets to barking, whinning, or protesting in any way, use it like a hand grenade. If he keeps barking, do it again, and again until you win.
DO NOT EVER LET HIM OUT OF THE CAGE WHILE HE IS PROTESTING!
If you need more help let me know
Mike
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Old 12-23-2006, 22:55   #230
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Hey Mike,
I just wanted to give you a quick update on Princess' progress. She's doing very well I can't claim she has stopped biting, but it's definitely slowing. She's learning not to bite me. She just licks, which is fine by me. My boyfriend hasn't gotten the tongue technique, so she still goes after him.

I have also taught her the command "gentle" for when taking treats. She's been very snappy about taking her treats, which as you can imagine can be painful when she misses. Today I was able to tell her "gentle" without holding her, and she did it for me! She's stubborn, but smart. Just gotta be more stubborn than her.

Thanks again for all your help. I'll be contributing to the fund-raiser tonight
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Old 12-23-2006, 23:04   #231
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thanks for the help, i'll update after a few weeks
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:19   #232
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Commands

Is there a book on standardized commands? We will be getting a puppy in about 8 months and I want to read up and get familiar with the correct terms. The breed will most likely be a Springer Spaniel or similar.

Thanks,
Dave

PS I have ordered the book on housebreaking you recomended on the first couple pages.
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Old 12-26-2006, 13:19   #233
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G20,

at what point do you stop tying the dog to your waste and let him roam free in the house while your home?
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Old 12-26-2006, 17:05   #234
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Re: Commands

Quote:
Originally posted by crazydave
Is there a book on standardized commands? We will be getting a puppy in about 8 months and I want to read up and get familiar with the correct terms. The breed will most likely be a Springer Spaniel or similar.

Thanks,
Dave

PS I have ordered the book on housebreaking you recomended on the first couple pages.
Dave,
I am familiar with 2 authors. The Monks of New Skete, and Matthew Margolis. Read up on both and you will know what I know.

Mike
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Old 12-26-2006, 17:08   #235
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Originally posted by CentralMsGunFan
G20,

at what point do you stop tying the dog to your waste and let him roam free in the house while your home?
When you forget she is there AND you would trust her on a $20K rug.

Seriously, she will let you know when she gets it. Usually around 4-5months old.
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Old 12-27-2006, 11:52   #236
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I have been lurking in this thread and read so many tidbits, I'm sure I've already forgotten 1/2 of what I've read, but I know where to do some research in the morning

My brother recent got a sheeba Inu pup, Maximus at 8 weeks old, and we've now had him about 8 weeks. He's quite happy in his crate and the bitter apple trick makes him forget about biting peoples hands pretty quickly. Every once in awhile he'll try that game again, but I'll go get that bottle in the other room, spritz my hands to come back and play and SUPRISE.. right after the bite I hold down for 10-15 seconds and he goes, sneezes about 20 times, drinks some water and stops biting.

However were having a few other problems with Max, when my brother or myself go for walks with him, he'll want to stop and smell the roses, trees, bushes, etc. I read about letting him do his thing, so I'll let him check stuff out on the leash around the house and once its time to go, I firmly drag him along till he's walking.

My few concerns are socializing him and his occasionally berserk behaviour. When we come across new dogs, or strangers, I'll reign him in and give him only about a foot of leash between my hand and his collar. When he can meet someone/somthing on his own he's always very friendly, just doing a nose to nose sniff with a dog or sniffing someones shoes if its a stranger. My parents walked him the other day and mom picked him up when some strangers came by and he didn't like it at all. What would you suggest for a small-medium sized dog tyhats not agrresive?

My second concern at this point is maybe 15-20 minutes into a walk, Max will start acting up. If I'm running with my bro he'll just start stopping in the middle of the sidewalk in front of someone, forcing you to stop or kick him or step on him. If your walking he'll just belly down in the grass.. or start to gnash the grass with his teeth and run in little circles, typing himself up in the leash.

If you straighten out his harness/leash and start walking again, he'll start jumping up on your legs, or jump and try and bite your pants/knees, or sometimes he'll just start running underneath you, like hes trying to trip you up. When he starts biting though, he's a little more aggressive, he'll go back to biting your hand, or chewing your shoe/foot. I'll shorten his leash and he'll be good for a minute, then go back and dive for my knees or my brothers. 'NO!' doesnt have any affect on him and an alpha rollover on his back works and he'll look away and slink off a foot or two, but then dive right back. I'm at a loss as to what to do.. With the biting mid walk or when hes tearing around the grass, or even just at a dead run he stops and bellies down. It doesnt seem to be in response to anything around us or other dogs, we can be in the middle of an open park/field by ourself and he'll do the same things.
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:18   #237
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Quote:
Originally posted by colsankey
I have been lurking in this thread and read so many tidbits, I'm sure I've already forgotten 1/2 of what I've read, but I know where to do some research in the morning

My brother recent got a sheeba Inu pup, Maximus at 8 weeks old, and we've now had him about 8 weeks. He's quite happy in his crate and the bitter apple trick makes him forget about biting peoples hands pretty quickly. Every once in awhile he'll try that game again, but I'll go get that bottle in the other room, spritz my hands to come back and play and SUPRISE.. right after the bite I hold down for 10-15 seconds and he goes, sneezes about 20 times, drinks some water and stops biting.

However were having a few other problems with Max, when my brother or myself go for walks with him, he'll want to stop and smell the roses, trees, bushes, etc. I read about letting him do his thing, so I'll let him check stuff out on the leash around the house and once its time to go, I firmly drag him along till he's walking.

Ok, who is the alpha here, you or him? You make all the decisions here. Depending on the length of the walk he could just be tired.

My few concerns are socializing him and his occasionally berserk behaviour. When we come across new dogs, or strangers, I'll reign him in and give him only about a foot of leash between my hand and his collar. When he can meet someone/somthing on his own he's always very friendly, just doing a nose to nose sniff with a dog or sniffing someones shoes if its a stranger. My parents walked him the other day and mom picked him up when some strangers came by and he didn't like it at all. What would you suggest for a small-medium sized dog tyhats not agrresive?
Ok, I'm confused, when you meet another dog why do you reign him in? If you are relaxed, then he will be also. Tell Mom also, to NEVER pick him up unless its an off leash dog that means them both harm. In which case I hope you CCW.




My second concern at this point is maybe 15-20 minutes into a walk, Max will start acting up. If I'm running with my bro he'll just start stopping in the middle of the sidewalk in front of someone, forcing you to stop or kick him or step on him. If your walking he'll just belly down in the grass.. or start to gnash the grass with his teeth and run in little circles, typing himself up in the leash.

Sounds like he coud be tired, at 4months old, he could be.


If you straighten out his harness/leash and start walking again, he'll start jumping up on your legs, or jump and try and bite your pants/knees, or sometimes he'll just start running underneath you, like hes trying to trip you up. When he starts biting though, he's a little more aggressive, he'll go back to biting your hand, or chewing your shoe/foot. I'll shorten his leash and he'll be good for a minute, then go back and dive for my knees or my brothers. 'NO!' doesnt have any affect on him and an alpha rollover on his back works and he'll look away and slink off a foot or two, but then dive right back. I'm at a loss as to what to do.. With the biting mid walk or when hes tearing around the grass, or even just at a dead run he stops and bellies down. It doesnt seem to be in response to anything around us or other dogs, we can be in the middle of an open park/field by ourself and he'll do the same things.
Take the bitter stuff with you on your walks, when he starts acting a fool, spray him directly in the mouth.
Also, if you can find the above books I listed, those will help you learn to read your dog.
Good Luck and let me know how it goes.
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Old 12-27-2006, 14:06   #238
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Thanks for the suggestions. Everything makes sense and will be passed on except for the CCW part We live in the land of igloos and maple syrup to the north where we are not expected to need to defend ourselves
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Old 12-27-2006, 18:28   #239
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to G20man32904 how to i make my boy aggressive, if im out in front yard and somebody comes to me, i want him to bark, n be aggressive until i tell him not to..i want to send him to some strict raining any ideas??



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Old 12-27-2006, 18:45   #240
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Supra,
Follow the link and talk with the trainers near you.
Link

This is not something you should attempt yourself!
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