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Old 10-09-2007, 21:21   #451
mike1969
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I didnt read through all 18 pages of this thread, but Im curious to know if you use the clickers?? I started Maggie(1year and 10 months old yellow lab/chow mix that came from the St Augustine humane society) tonight with the clicker. She has already figured out, if I click she gets a treat. And this worked well when she roaming through the yard attacking lizards this evening. How long should I do the charging/loading thing(click treat), before I can expect her to learn to mark the behavior?? She has a very high energy level.

The real test will come in the morning when she is outside and trying to murder the lizard overpopulation in the yard. I can not make her come when she is trying to get them. But she did come tonight when I was clicking.

Before the clicker stuff, she has already learned sit, down, stand, hugs(ok its a version of a hug), fetch. Stay, rollover, crawl are the next things she probably will learn.

And more thing. If she pees in the house,(it has happened 3 times), should I use vinegar and a water mix(its carpet near the backdoor.)or some of the commerical stuff. She will not go in the crate at all. And I try to limit her water intake at night, because if I dont she is up and awake at 630 in the morning.

Heres a pic from their web page
http://www.staugustinehumanesociety....gs_puppies.htm
She is on the left side with 2 pics.

Here is a second from home...
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Old 10-09-2007, 21:25   #452
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and one from the razr fone. She learned to climb in the tub, even I mention the word. Tub, and she is in there. Absolutley loves water!!

The humane society in St. Aug hasnt taken her picture down yet, even though I adopted her about 2 weeks ago or so..

Sorry about the quality sometimes the razr fones just take a sh***** picture.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:54   #453
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Every trainer has their "thing" that works best for them. I have used a clicker in the past with a few dogs with good success and it can be a great tool, however, I have found it all goes back to timing with praise and/or rewards.
If you need it to help you learn timing more power to you. It will work.
I “prefer” to use food rewards only because it makes the dogs so much happier about learning and it also clarifies what I want of them.
Good luck with your clicker
Mike
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:29   #454
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for the unrinatingin the house
I tried this stuff and it works for my dobe and my 7 yr old malti-poo who sometimes marks in the house.

http://www.getseriousproducts.com/

Unlike vinegar and ammonia, this takes the "Pheramone" out of the spot, making the dog forget to come back to that spot.
That said, he/she may try to go somewhere else, which is where just keep an eye on em and their water intake, since he/she is still kinda young til they get it.
Worked for me.
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Old 10-21-2007, 10:40   #455
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For what it's worth I agree with G20.. We have four german shepherds that all train one way or another.. In my humble view, G20 hit the nail on the head.. proper timing with praise and rewards works every bit as good as clickers. The other thing is, using a clicker requires you to have it in your hand all the time.. and that can make it harder to handle leads, treats, toys and other equipment during training sessions.. And hey, what happens when you get on the field only to discover you've forgotten your clicker.. Finally, and this is a "me" thing.. I just feel that using my voice and my body language, and not a mechanical device, leads to a stronger bond with my dogs... because it's what they hear and know and both on and off the training field.. hey, I could be totally off base but again, that's just how I feel.. Anyway, good luck and have fun..


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Old 10-31-2007, 09:58   #456
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Now how do I train this Yorkshire Terrier?

Some of you may remember my post from a while back where I had a GSD mix that was experiencing leash aggression because of a time he was attacked. It was suggested that I just go with a straight choker and control my anxiety. Well I did that, and it started to work quite well. He was still having some ocassional sessions with other dogs, so I decided to try out a "leerburg dominant dog collar". All I can say is wow. With this thing, because of the fitting style, I can cut off his "session" before he even gets a chance to fully lunge. I am amazed at how well it works, as I am able to calmly just lift up and cut off his air supply before he can get going, and even bark. Plus he is generally calm immediately after I do that, so I can release him, and he will be calm, even if the dog is still there and barking at him. I rarely even have to correct him anymore.

Anyway, the Yorkie seems to have picked up where the other dog left off. Unfortunately I think she learned it from him during his "bad" stage, but I don't know how to stop her. I am only used to working with dogs I can get "physical" with. I would imagine a choke collar may just rip the little dogs head off and do damage to her. I tried grabbing her and muzzling her with my hand for a few moments, but that doesnt seem to be working. Any ideas? Does she need some sort of a small gentle leader or something. Probably something that could redirect her, and close her mouth at the same time would be good. This is, of course, supposed to be my wifes dog, and I have done little training with her, A) because I don't have time, and B) because it's supposed to be her dog. The dog does get plenty of excercise and I take her on almost all walks. She is good as far as housetraining and such, but my wife lets her on furniture and the bed and stuff, and I don't think thats helping.

I am a real softie when it comes to small animals. My wife will smack the cat if he gets on the counter, whereas the cat just looks at me and knows I wont do crap. I just can't bring myself to smack a little cat...lol I just gently nudge him off.
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Old 10-31-2007, 10:16   #457
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Glad to hear we got the GSD in shape. I have never heard of that type of collar, but after some research, I see it operates exactly like a metal choker with small links.

Guod,
You learned to use a tool to correct the GSD’s behavior. Why would you think any differently about a small dog? They all think the same way, size really doesn’t matter. (Being a dog would be good! )
You need to be the leader, there are lots of tools out there to use. If you prefer to use a Halti collar and it gets the job done, use it. If it doesn’t, it ain’t the collar that failed.
Bottom line, use what works for you and what you feel comfortable with.

BTW, tell wifey to stop smacking the cat. If you don’t get your message thru within 3 corrections the animal doesn’t understand what you want. Try a squirt bottle set on jet stream.
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:37   #458
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I think I will give a halti a try with her,and see what happens. BTW, I also noticed that she seems to be in heat, so that may have something to do with the behavior. At least maybe making it more pronounced.

As far as the smacking of the cat. Oh, he knows what she wants, if she even looks at him, he will jump of the counter. For instance the other night she was on the couch, and the cat had jumped on the counter. I am standing there staring at him, and he just kept sitting there. So then I pointed it out to my wife, she turned around, and he immediately jumped down. Maybe ill just use a squirt bottle. Good call.

As far as the collar, whats good is that the way it clips allows for the collar to be much smaller than one that would need to slip over the head. This way the corrections are much quicker, because there is barely any travel between when correction begun, and when it is actually applied. With this collar I can correct him before he even has the opportunity to bark. He starts to lunge, and I can correct him before he can even begin to his action.
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:45   #459
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Ok, being heat may effect her behavior, I will give her that. Let us know how it works out for you.
Congrats on learning how to work the collar! Again if it works for you, use it. Next time in the pet store, try a small link metal or even a cloth choker and see if your timing is still there. After all, that is what we are discussing. There is no magic bullet if ya know what I mean.
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Old 11-04-2007, 22:34   #460
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Wow, G20man, this is quite a thread!

I skimmed through all of it, but not super-thoroughly, so forgive me if the answer to my questions are back on page 8.

Background: Rescue dog from Puerto Rico, it's safe to assume he was significantly abused. Oh, and he's just a MUTT (God love him!). 30lbs, knee-high, solid, medium in all ways. Was in foster home in PR for a couple of months, then fostered locally for two or three more "because he was so shy." I'm not dog experienced, but I've done a TON of reading, and I don't think he's shy; he's submissive. *shrug*

So anyway, we get him six months ago, at about 10 months of age. Great with us, great with the kids, hadn't had a LICK of training. I caught him in the act of peeing in the house ONCE, scolded him, took him outside, gave the command 'go potty,' and it was like he said, "Oh, you don't want me to pee in the house? Why didn't you say so? Okay, I won't."

Foster mom liked him to put his paws up on her jacket pocket to ask for a treat. Cured him of that with a firm OFF and ignoring him for a few seconds.

Spent a couple of days teaching: Sit, Down, Stay, and Release - all with words or hand signals. Also knows Kennel, Mat (bed outside the kennel), and Give as words.

For correction, I usually grunt "Aaaant" somewhat like a "wrong answer" buzzer on a game show. He stops the incorrect behavior and takes a submissive posture.

Two issues:

Big One: He's protective to a fault.

He's got this 'berzerk' bark he uses sometimes. For example, if he's out in the yard he 'regular' barks if someone walks by. He 'berzerk' barks if someone goes buy with a kid in a noisy little red wagon or if a loud motorcycle drives by too slowly. The berzerk bark is snarly and he snorts when he breathes in between barks. His brain is in overdrive and he can't hear me. He has one other bark: If we're inside and he hears a suspicious noise, he does a low 'hoof/woof' bark that says "Mom, something's up, let's check it out." If I don't respond to that, he noses me till I do - I LIKE that behaviour.

Further, he does not believe that anyone should be allowed in our home, besides the family and one local relative. He has nipped at the shoes of child guests (I kennelled him for the duration of the play date). He nipped at a friend's jeans-covered ankle and left two small bruises.

We got trick-or-treaters on Halloween. I had him separated from the door with a 'dog board'. He jumped behind it (not over it - thank God!), doing the 'berzerk' bark. I think he goes more berzerk over kids than adults (not good).

He's really good with MY kids. The 8 yo likes to be bossy, so they do fine. The 6 yo wants to be his friend. He takes a little advantage of her, but NEVER nips or shows aggression, just some dominant body postures (to which she is oblivious). I'm working with her on being more bossy.

I got a dog because I wanted a 2nd set of ears, and I wanted a dog that would be protective. Consequently, I haven't commented (to him) much when he barks at passers by - because I dont' know what to 'say.' I want him to be protective, but I also want him to shut up when I say so.

Second issue: He doesn't potty on the leash. Foster mom told me so, and she seems correct. He held it for 12 hours when we drove to visit grandma...then peed 3 times in 10 minutes. lol But there may come a time when he can NOT be off leash; he needs to get over this.

After reading thru this thread, I know what you're going to say about issue number two: leash him to your waist. Okay, I'll consider that, but I'm more worried about the protectiveness.

The other thing I picked up from this thread is that his "stay" is not very good. If there's a food treat pending, he will stay longer than if I just downstay him. But he tries to belly crawl closer. I'll start working on that. I wasn't sure just how much was to be expected of a downstay at this age (15-18 months, estimated). One idea I have is to downstay him while his breakfast/dinner is prepared. It takes about 10 minutes (for the broth to soak into the kibble -Nutro, BTW, which is then mixed with a spoonful of homemade). Dh thought that was way too long, but I think now that that is probably a good interim goal.

What else do I need? Where do I start?

Thanks a MILLION!!!!!
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Old 11-05-2007, 14:05   #461
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WOW Pru!
Congrats on doing your homework and knowing your dog!!! This will be easy because of you already have a basic understanding of what is going on. Since there is soo much in your post I will take things one at a time and let me know if I skip over something.

Quote:
Background: Rescue dog from Puerto Rico, it's safe to assume he was significantly abused. Oh, and he's just a MUTT (God love him!). 30lbs, knee-high, solid, medium in all ways. Was in foster home in PR for a couple of months, then fostered locally for two or three more "because he was so shy." I'm not dog experienced, but I've done a TON of reading, and I don't think he's shy; he's submissive. *shrug*
Ok, don’t think submissive here, think NO CONFIDENCE! that is because no one has spoken “dog” to him and he was highly confused in the foster environment. We can fix this by using a normal buckle type collar and not a choker. Go easy on corrections unless he is being aggressive (read: mostly verbal).

Exactly how I mean with the housebreaking, you speak “dog” to him and he will learn very quickly.

Quote:
For correction, I usually grunt "Aaaant" somewhat like a "wrong answer" buzzer on a game show. He stops the incorrect behavior and takes a submissive posture.
See? Make sure to follow up every correction with an appropriate amount of praise, (in relation to how “hard” the correction was given).

Quote:
Big One: He's protective to a fault.

He's got this 'berzerk' bark he uses sometimes. For example, if he's out in the yard he 'regular' barks if someone walks by. He 'berzerk' barks if someone goes buy with a kid in a noisy little red wagon or if a loud motorcycle drives by too slowly. The berzerk bark is snarly and he snorts when he breathes in between barks. His brain is in overdrive and he can't hear me. He has one other bark: If we're inside and he hears a suspicious noise, he does a low 'hoof/woof' bark that says "Mom, something's up, let's check it out." If I don't respond to that, he noses me till I do - I LIKE that behaviour.
Ok, this is very close to a dangerous dog. From what I have read so far, he sounds like a fear biter. This is not good for anyone including your “alarm bark”. In reading his barks, start correcting every bark that is not his deep hoof/woof. If someone is a potential threat to you or your home praise him lavishly. Now, what is a threat? A leaf blowing across the yard? A cat snuggling up to the exterior wall? A person walking on the sidewalk? NO, NO, NO. A threat is someone/vehicle in your yard actively moving towards a door or window. This will take some time to get work in and get used to, but, he can and will learn to decipher what is a threat and what bears watching or more investigation.

Quote:
Further, he does not believe that anyone should be allowed in our home, besides the family and one local relative. He has nipped at the shoes of child guests (I kennelled him for the duration of the play date). He nipped at a friend's jeans-covered ankle and left two small bruises.
From this day forward, whenever anybody comes to the house leash him up to you.
If he makes an aggressive move, go ballistic with verbal and a leash correction. Your timing here is critical and is much more important (at that time then any visitor).
Putting him away tells him he is a dangerous dog and reinforces the behavior.

Quote:
We got trick-or-treaters on Halloween. I had him separated from the door with a 'dog board'. He jumped behind it (not over it - thank God!), doing the 'berzerk' bark. I think he goes more berzerk over kids than adults (not good).
Halloween is tough. If you must give out candy, take the dog on leash outside the house and do a nice down stay (for up to an hour) in the far corner of the front yard. Make sure the kids are well lit up on the porch so he can see there is no threat or problem. For this reason I leave my house blacked out for Halloween and I stand out on the sidewalk for the kids. My dogs will go after anything with a mask because that’s what they are taught during training. Rather than undue that ward work, I just don’t expose them to kids in masks.

Quote:
Second issue: He doesn't potty on the leash. Foster mom told me so, and she seems correct. He held it for 12 hours when we drove to visit grandma...then peed 3 times in 10 minutes. lol But there may come a time when he can NOT be off leash; he needs to get over this.
I guarantee we can wait him out on this. Try using a longer piece of rope (maybe 20ft). He can’t hold it forever. When he does go praise him heavily. If he wont do a BM on the leash, simply take a paper match and wet it with saliva and put it in his rump, as deep as you can with needing gloves. The sulphur will dissolve cause the sphincter tone to lose control and he will go usually in the first 5-10minutes. Again when he does praise him lavishly with a “potty” word. I use “do it” for a BM and “hit it” to go pee. Pretty soon you can have do both in under 5mins wherever you need them to go. Great on road trips btw.

Ok, Down stay command.
First, this must be done on leash, second where you drop him is where he is to stay. If he starts to belly crawl, he is wrong. Tell him so and physically move him to where you dropped him. Start with 5minutes and workup to 90minutes. This is only for a down stay. A sit stay should not be held for more that 5minutes due to hip structures. Also, with a sit stay, watch the surface to make sure he has traction.
Reward lavishly for a nice long down stay and use the kids as distraction.

Distractions,
Find a place where there are lots of kids and motorcycles and muzzle him and work that down stay. This is called “flooding” and is what you need to do to get him thru these things.

So how is that for a start?
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Old 11-05-2007, 14:33   #462
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Thanks for the quick reply! I'll go back thru this thread; I know you've addressed low confidence a few times. I didn't pay much attention because I didn't realize that applies to us.

When he's in the yard and someone goes by, he runs back and forth along the fence, whether it's the 'regular' bark or the berzerk bark. I can't usually catch him to correct him, so I assume you'll recommend that he only be outside if I can be with him and leash him, right?

Is it necessary to have different words for pee & poop? We've just always used "go potty".

For the downstay, do you start working with distractions at this stage or wait until the skills are solid withOUT distractions?

I agree with you that he is approaching dangerous. And I sure hope we can 'fix' it, because he's terrific in every other way and we love him to pieces!

Thanks again.
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Old 11-05-2007, 18:11   #463
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No problem, the fast response isn't the norm though.
Quote:
When he's in the yard and someone goes by, he runs back and forth along the fence, whether it's the 'regular' bark or the berzerk bark. I can't usually catch him to correct him, so I assume you'll recommend that he only be outside if I can be with him and leash him, right?
Yup, its called fence running and no more of that! Put him on a 30ft leash or a remote correction collar (once we build his confidence up some).

Work that Down stay with as many distractions as you can find right away. I like to get the kids involved here. Have them do everythingh BUT CALL HIM TO THEM!! They can pull on the lead, play with him, throw treats to him, throw treats around him. However if he cannot reach a treat without breaking the stay he does not get the treat until he is released.


We can absolutely "fix" him. As soon as we are thru with you.
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Old 11-05-2007, 23:08   #464
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Right on Mike, I didn't know about the match stick trick. That's pretty neat.

Oh hey, thought I'd let you know that volunteering at the NE Humane Soc. has been awesome. It's fun reading the training logs for the different dogs. I try and take the dogs out that have the most issues with pulling and jumping. Five min into the walk and bam, that dog is mine. Man, it's such a rush. Since I can't have any dogs in my current place, it makes it that much more rewarding.

Anyway, I hope you're managing to stay out of the hospital!
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:07   #465
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Great news Blink!! Dogs on death row seem to really respond well to training. Hmm wonder why?? Anyway, I know the rush and still get it myself from time to time. When you get good students like Pru, you get it back.

Haha, the old match trick, I can't take credit for it. It was taught to me by an older lady that used to do a lot in the show ring. If a dog goes in the ring he goes home, so they make sure they are empty before heading in. Works really well.

No more hospitals for me dood! There are sick people in there!!!
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:59   #466
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Great news Blink!! Dogs on death row seem to really respond well to training. Hmm wonder why?? Anyway, I know the rush and still get it myself from time to time. When you get good students like Pru, you get it back.

Haha, the old match trick, I can't take credit for it. It was taught to me by an older lady that used to do a lot in the show ring. If a dog goes in the ring he goes home, so they make sure they are empty before heading in. Works really well.

No more hospitals for me dood! There are sick people in there!!!
Well, the good thing about the NHS is that it's a low-kill shelter. Dogs that have severe aggression or health issues are the only ones that are put down.

Yeah, I'll have to remember that trick.

No more? That's awesome man!
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Old 11-06-2007, 15:57   #467
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No more? That's awesome man!
Well, let me clarify, if ain't life or death, I ain't going!
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Old 11-07-2007, 01:22   #468
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Well, let me clarify, if ain't life or death, I ain't going!
I hear ya brother.
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Old 11-19-2007, 22:19   #469
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Two week update: Downstay is up to 20 minutes. Sometimes he gets so bored that he rolls onto his side and dozes during a downstay. I hope that's okay; I think it is. He'll stay with a treat just out of reach as long as he can see me. I'm working on stepping around the corner and having him keep the downstay.

At suppertime, I downstay him when I start the water for his food. Periodically, he gets excited about the upcoming meal & jumps up and spins, but I correct him and re-downstay him (10-15 minutes total). He eats outside. He must stay down when I open the door, until I say 'come'. If he gets up before I say 'come' I close the door and take him back to the downstay location. He's figured it out pretty quickly.

I'm working into the habit of an evening walk. We've had three walks now and he is 75% better on his 'heel'. He's a bit car-shy and wants to put me between him and passing cars (quiet suburban development with sidewalks). Today we saw another dog (with human) across the street; I just kept up with leash & verbal corrections. Also, today, I passed home on our way back, to see if he'd honor my leadership. (I know from other walks that he knows where home is.) He did follow me right past our home, with only a glance.

Haven't yet started on 'yard work' with him (fence running, barking & pottying on lead). Bad time of year for that, and I don't want to start it if I'm not going to stick with it. Haven't had any guests either.

So far, so good, and I feel a lot more...empowered. Thanks for your advice.

I'll continue to post updates periodically
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Old 11-22-2007, 20:15   #470
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That's awesome Pru. With the car-shyness, one thing that is very important is that you don't anticipate. If you see a car and begin to tense up, he's going to feel that nervous energy through the leash. Keep your head up and shoulder relaxed and just keep walking.

If you can't stick to doing 'yard work' yet, it's not a huge problem. Right now you're establishing your leadership. 'Yard work' will be much much easier with you in the leader position.

Keep up the good work!
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Old 11-25-2007, 16:41   #471
G20man32904
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Two week update: Downstay is up to 20 minutes. Sometimes he gets so bored that he rolls onto his side and dozes during a downstay. I hope that's okay; I think it is. He'll stay with a treat just out of reach as long as he can see me. I'm working on stepping around the corner and having him keep the downstay.

At suppertime, I downstay him when I start the water for his food. Periodically, he gets excited about the upcoming meal & jumps up and spins, but I correct him and re-downstay him (10-15 minutes total). He eats outside. He must stay down when I open the door, until I say 'come'. If he gets up before I say 'come' I close the door and take him back to the downstay location. He's figured it out pretty quickly.

I'm working into the habit of an evening walk. We've had three walks now and he is 75% better on his 'heel'. He's a bit car-shy and wants to put me between him and passing cars (quiet suburban development with sidewalks). Today we saw another dog (with human) across the street; I just kept up with leash & verbal corrections. Also, today, I passed home on our way back, to see if he'd honor my leadership. (I know from other walks that he knows where home is.) He did follow me right past our home, with only a glance.

Haven't yet started on 'yard work' with him (fence running, barking & pottying on lead). Bad time of year for that, and I don't want to start it if I'm not going to stick with it. Haven't had any guests either.

So far, so good, and I feel a lot more...empowered. Thanks for your advice.

I'll continue to post updates periodically
Way to go Pru!!
On the downstay, thats fine if he snoozes as long as he remembers he is in a "stay" when he wakes up. You'll find this more and more common with the long down stays. Think of it as a "hibernating" command.
Keep it up, your doing great!
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Old 12-02-2007, 13:31   #472
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Hey, all. I posted a few months ago about my Ridgeback pup. We've now been to two behaviourists and a trainer, and I still can't get the two last little nagging problems taken care of. I'm at a complete loss and about to go to the vet and ask for a run of puppy prozac, so feel free to suggest anything... I hate using drugs. :-P

First off, this is not a fearful dog. She's very confident, loves strangers, is NOT aggressive towards people I've identified as 'good' and are in our house, but is protective of the house and surrounding area. When she's in protection mode, her tail is up, her ruff is up, and she's barking.

The trainer has helped me get a secure handle on her at the dog park. She's completely trustworthy at the dog park now and will come when called even while chasing someone. She'll still dominate the hell out of any dog that looks like he MIGHT need it, but she does it without worrying me or the other dog's owners anymore. Her one bad habit is preferring to chase dogs that are chasing a ball and try to intimidate them out of their toy, but most other dog owners don't mind.. there's just one or two who do.

Now for the problem:

When we encounter a car, bicyclist, jogger, stroller, or a person with another dog when we're outside and she's on leash, she has a reaction that many would mistake as protective aggression but I am very confident is fear. She will start by whining and quickly escalate to lunging and barking at the object with her tail between her legs, ears back, and no ruff. It's range-induced -- if she is on the porch with me, she's fine. If we're down by the mailbox, I'm restraining 80 lbs of lunging Ridgeback with everything I've got... and yes, she is on a head halter. The other trigger seems to be speed. Someone walking? No reaction. Someone walking with a dog? Reaction. Someone driving slowly? Reduced reaction. Someone driving like they stole it? BIG reaction, almost instantly goes from whine to full lunge.

She has this type of reaction in the car, too... not towards other cars, but towards pedestrians and other animals on the side of the road.

If I cover her eyes, the reaction goes away or is limited, but she can still hear the car coming and is still panicked. A calming cap was a disaster... she could see the headlights of the car approaching, she could hear it coming, but she couldn't see the whole thing or where she was going and ended up in a snarling tangle of limbs, leash, and etc. on her back on the ground. (Yes, she was fine with the calming cap and had been acclimated otherwise under the supervision of a behaviourist.)

The behaviourists recommended classical conditioning with positive reinforcement. Basically, feed her her favorite treats any time the fear item is near, and slowly work closer to it. I've been working with her daily out front of the house for the past two months with no change. If we're over her 'line', she'll watch the thing approaching while eating treats from my hand. She'll start rolling her eyes and showing the whites of her eyes. And then she will go straight through the treat she was eating off of to lunge and bark, completely ignoring that there's food present... and then after the fear item has passed, she'll return to the treat, but she'll start eating more ... violently? She normally takes treats very well and is very careful to not nip, but after she's just had a fear reaction she'll nip kind of hard to get to the treat.

It's worth noting that other than lunging and barking with signs of fear, and nipping my hand a little bit, she has NEVER acted like she wants to hurt anyone. Even when I've been restraining her, she's never acted aggressively towards me in order to get away from me. She's never attacked anyone even if she's gotten loose ... heck, if she gets loose when a jogger with a dog is going by, she'll go from barking and lunging to tail wagging, sniffing the other dog's rear, and butting the jogger in the knees until he pets her and then running back to me. I'm just afraid of her getting loose and her running up to a car, sniffing the tailpipe, and then butting it in the grill until it, er, 'pets' her...

I've got a vet appointment for her later this week... if y'all don't have any ideas, then we're going to have to talk about prozac for her just long enough for me to train her around this hurdle.

Last edited by speck; 12-02-2007 at 13:37..
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Old 12-02-2007, 18:45   #473
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Speck,
Sounds like you have done some good work, but here is some more for you. Exercise, exercise, exercise, then take her to an area that will be flooded with both foot and motor traffic. I like to use the grocery store entrance. (If you tell the store manager before starting, I have never had a problem). This is called flooding, and works really, really well.
The fact that she only does it on lead (taught lead I'm sure) tells me that it is more of a "U" thing and less of a "her" thing.
What are you doing while practicing? sitting? standing? What are you asking the dog to do while the distraction is present? Keep her mind busy and the body will follow.

Don't discount meds right away. Try some Benadryl first, after a good workout and that will give you an idea of what may work.

What da ya think Blinky? Did I miss anything?
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Old 12-02-2007, 19:22   #474
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Sounds like a plan -- I can take her to my university campus very easily. She loves being around people, it's the cars and bicycles that she gets all up in arms about.

I'm not sure what I could be doing to cause it, but the trainer's thought was that it's self-reinforcing. She has bad puppy-onset hip dysplasia. My previous tactic was to teach her to 'sit' when we were out for a walk and a car was approaching... and she might've associated the pain of sitting with the approach of a car. And now that she's reacting that way towards the approach of a car, she gets up on her hind legs -- which has got to hurt worse.
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Old 12-03-2007, 00:01   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G20man32904 View Post
Speck,
Sounds like you have done some good work, but here is some more for you. Exercise, exercise, exercise, then take her to an area that will be flooded with both foot and motor traffic. I like to use the grocery store entrance. (If you tell the store manager before starting, I have never had a problem). This is called flooding, and works really, really well.
The fact that she only does it on lead (taught lead I'm sure) tells me that it is more of a "U" thing and less of a "her" thing.
What are you doing while practicing? sitting? standing? What are you asking the dog to do while the distraction is present? Keep her mind busy and the body will follow.

Don't discount meds right away. Try some Benadryl first, after a good workout and that will give you an idea of what may work.

What da ya think Blinky? Did I miss anything?
Yup, when dealing with this situation a nice loooong walk before starting is key. I guess the only think I can really add is not to anticipate anything. Personally, I would ditch the head halter and consider a pinch collar. If she's as wild as it sounds, I'd be concerned about neck damage. The pinch collar will allow for a proper leash correction.

Speck,

In this case the use of treats doesn't sit well with me. Would you give candy to a child that is already hyper? The treats have become a reward for that behavior. That's the thing that a lot of people miss, when you give a treat to a dog you are reinforcing the state of mind the dog is in at that very moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speck View Post
Sounds like a plan -- I can take her to my university campus very easily. She loves being around people, it's the cars and bicycles that she gets all up in arms about.

I'm not sure what I could be doing to cause it, but the trainer's thought was that it's self-reinforcing. She has bad puppy-onset hip dysplasia. My previous tactic was to teach her to 'sit' when we were out for a walk and a car was approaching... and she might've associated the pain of sitting with the approach of a car. And now that she's reacting that way towards the approach of a car, she gets up on her hind legs -- which has got to hurt worse.
One thing I would start doing also, is to start approaching what scares her. This is part of the flooding. Again, take her for a nice long walk and then seek out the situations that will trigger a reaction. This may sound a bit counter-intuitive but it's important that you don't anticipate her reaction. She's not walking around thinking about the next car she might see, she's just reacting to the car that she does see. You need to adopt that thought process. At the VERY first sign of her issues, you need to step in. I would correct with the leash to get her attention back on you. You MUST do this at the exact moment she starts. It's very easy to correct a dog a level 1, whimpering. Once you let her get to level 5 and up, it's almost a lost cause at that moment.

With time and patience you can and will help her get past her problems. Good luck man.

edit: With her being in the car, again a nice long walk before hand is key. After that hop in the back seat of the car with her (keep the leash and collar on), with out going anywhere. Just get her used to relaxing in the car. After that I would have someone else drive the car with you in the back seat, relaxed and ready to correct. Again, I can't stress this enough, don't anticipate anything. She'll get it eventually. Just be confident and relaxed and your dog will pick up on that and mirror you.
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Last edited by Blinky; 12-03-2007 at 11:52..
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