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Old 09-11-2004, 04:38   #1
antediluvianist
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bingi?

This Canadian list confirms what all the other similar lists I've seen indicate : 9mm. is significantly louder (more decibels ) than .45acp (the decibel numbers are logarithmic so the difference is more than it seems.)



CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA

.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB

The above averages are for all types of ammunition used in these firearms, and should be considered fairly representative. No wonder we hear numerous reports about hearing loss as a result of firearms , including acoustic traumas that destroy hearing completely as a result of one shot. Imagine what the noise levels must be when we incorporate porting into firearms, or have a gun fire near the ear .
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Old 09-11-2004, 12:12   #2
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Sorry, I can't hear you! ;f
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Old 09-11-2004, 12:22   #3
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Say that again please?;f
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Old 09-11-2004, 16:03   #4
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Good topic.
Similar data from another thread:

http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=269913

Quote:
Gunfire noise levels, from data compiled by Dr. Krammer of Indiana,
using standard pressure cartridges in 'typical' firearm platforms, and presumably in an indoor situation, are as follows:

Handguns
.25 ACP --- 155.0 dB
.32 LONG --- 152.4 dB
.32 ACP --- 153.5 dB
.380 --- 157.7 dB
9mm --- 159.8 dB
.38 S&W --- 153.5 dB
.38 Spl --- 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum --- 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum --- 163.2 dB
.44 Spl --- 155.9 dB
.45 ACP --- 157.0 dB
.45 COLT --- 154.7 dB

Shotguns
.410 Bore 28" barrel --- 150dB
26" barrel --- 150.25dB
18" barrel --- 156.30dB
20 Gauge 28" barrel --- 152.50dB
22" barrel --- 154.75dB
12 Gauge 28" barrel --- 151.50dB
26" barrel --- 156.10dB
18" barrel --- 161.50dB

Rifles
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18" barrel --- 155.5dB
.243 in 22" barrel --- 155.9dB
.30-30 in 20" barrel --- 156.0dB
7mm Magnum in 20" barrel --- 157.5dB
.308 in 24" barrel --- 156.2dB
.30-06 in 24" barrel --- 158.5dB
.30-06 in 18" barrel --- 163.2dB
.375 18" barrel with muzzle brake --- 170 dB



Gunfire noise thus seems to ping around 160 dB.
(Firing range reloads are often loaded weaker and produce somewhat less noise.)

Normal speech pings about 60-65 dB
Permanent hearing damage can obtain from prolonged exposure to noise levels as low as 95 dB, though the threshold of pain lies around 140 dB. According to the AAO-HNS (American Academy of Otolaryngology - Head & Neck Surgery) the highest permissible noise exposure for the unprotected ear is 115 dB for 15 minutes/day.

Keep in mind that dB (decibels) are measured along a logarithmic curve,
so that a 160 dB gun blast carries 10,000,000,000 times the noise energy of a 60 dB conversation.
Count the zeroes.. that's ten billion times.

I use muffs 'rated' at NNR 32 dB, and my wife has been pestering me to use plugs as well --the noise ratings above show that she's right: The muffs offer 32 dB noise reduction, and the plugs another 20 or so, and using plugs and muffs in combo yields a bonus 15 for a total of 67 dB of noise reduction... just enough (if I accept the muff and plug manufacturers' claims, to yank gunfire noise down to the 'mildly-damaging' 90's.
;P

I guess if your ears feel different after a shooting session --or if you experience even a mild ringing in 'em after a noise episode, then you've already sustained irreparable damage. Most hearing damage goes undetected.

It's easy to dismiss cumulative hearing damage, until it's too late and you can't really hear your grandchildren singing you a Happy Birthday, or, at a loved one's deathbed, cannot understand their last affectionate words to you.

Stay sharp, stay safe.
;P
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Old 09-11-2004, 20:19   #5
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ANO BA ANG PINAG-UUSAPAN DITO?

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Old 09-11-2004, 20:48   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by horge
... --or if you experience even a mild ringing in 'em after a noise episode, then you've already sustained irreparable damage.
Meron na ko nito!

Yikes!!
;P
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Old 09-11-2004, 20:52   #7
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Tinnitus... In very silent environments I can hear some ringing... Must be from all those firecrackers when I was a kid...

PS Sometimes I hear voices too ;f
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Old 09-11-2004, 21:09   #8
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recommend a GOOD pair of ear muffs available in Manila?

I suspect that most of us do not really wear enough ear protection.I don't, and I wear more than most shooters I see. Those guys working at my indoor gunrange just wear little earplugs all day long, every day. Most of the shooters just pluck those very-worn common-use ear muffs off the wall when they enter the firing area (indoor range). I have seen some shooters just stick empty .38 spcl. shell cases into their ears. Some don't yell "Fire" or any warning before they shoot, so at least some of the other guys on the line have their muffs off when they start shooting. Sure has happened to me.

I bought just P600 earmuffs and they look Ok, but can't be really international standard. Those things plus ear plugs are all I use.
I guess I should buy better hearng protection.

Gentlemen, can you recommend a good pair of shooting muffs that are available in Manila and don't cost more than P4000? and where available? I do remember ringing in my ears after shooting .357 mag.
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Old 09-11-2004, 22:10   #9
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What about those fancy electronic muffs that cancel out the loud sounds but allow the mild ones through? They're around 7K last I asked...

Also, is sound db a linearly subtractable quantity? Point is, the gun's report is much, much more bearable, even with the use of tissue paper, when plugged in the ear canal. I mean, is there any reliable study of degree of noise strenght after the plug or muffs? To my observation, it's the high pitch of the sonic boom that's really hurtful, not the low bass-like sound that remains when I put on my muffs.

Thanks for any replies.
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Old 09-12-2004, 01:33   #10
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i used ordinary earplugs but im planning to buy an earmuffs, but in real life situation would anyone find time to wear ear protection if a BG is in front of you ..we cannot say TEKA.TEKA wait ka lang wala akong ear plug. i suggest we need to get used of our boomers BANG..but not in a confined area.just my piso ;e
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Old 09-13-2004, 05:39   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by julianz
i used ordinary earplugs but im planning to buy an earmuffs, but in real life situation would anyone find time to wear ear protection if a BG is in front of you ..we cannot say TEKA.TEKA wait ka lang wala akong ear plug. i suggest we need to get used of our boomers BANG..but not in a confined area.just my piso ;e
i guess this is fine for those who plink once in while. but for those who practice and compete, it might lead to cummulative hearing loss
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Old 09-13-2004, 05:56   #12
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not a problem

Ah, try firing a few .357s without hearing protection.

If somebody is attacking, well, you have no choice. You fire. And in fact some people who have been in gunfights say that they don't even remember hearing their guns go off (but the effect on their ears certainly occurred, whether they remember hearing the shots or not.)

Practice with hearing protection; compete using hearing protection. And if unfortunately you get into real life gunfight, the loudness of your gun will the least of your problems.
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Old 09-13-2004, 06:11   #13
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When the 50 barret came out to our armed forces. one marine sniper told me that at mindanao he was on a spotting station i think, when they chanced upon 5 moro rebels.

he got so excited since they were not more than 300 meters away and he took the barret and let go a round. He forgot to wear the plugs and he heard the ringing sound for a full 4 days;f
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Old 09-13-2004, 19:02   #14
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Construction worker earmuffs ----(cost:P200.00) NRR 32dB
Construction worker earplugs ----(cost:P100.00) NRR 22dB

Total expense = P300.oo
Total hearing protection = 117 dB

I've compared construction earmuffs with dedicated firing range passive muffs, and found no perceptible difference in noise reduction despite a dfference in pricetag reaching many hundreds of pesos.

Put on construction safety-glasses (P190.00) designed to protect against impact of shrapnel from impact drils and pneumatic hammers...

Put on a disposable NIOSH-vetted N95 facemask to keep toxic lead dust and compounded mercury vapor from your mouth, nose and lungs, and you're good to go.

Don't forget your 'Shell Helix Ultra' or 'Mobil 1' gun lube and your lighter fluid (naphtha) degreaser to include in your budget accessory/maintenance kit

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Old 09-13-2004, 19:49   #15
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as long as the stage props hold up, the RO wont call you to fix the props;f

but if its value you cant beat those. For me i need to look fast so that they think im fast. Gamit palang panalo na! even if you dont win anything pogi ka naman;f ;f ;f
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Old 09-14-2004, 08:19   #16
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ante: try Wyler enteprise,1300 Rizal avenue,Sta.Cruz,Manila tel: 735-1090,735-0585,735-1022,7351020.look for bert yap(sales manager).I bought my peltor muff there.they have all kinds of hearing/safety devices.prices are reasonable .
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Old 09-16-2004, 03:09   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by jasonub
For me i need to look fast so that they think im fast. Gamit palang panalo na! even if you dont win anything pogi ka naman;f ;f ;f
Ah, eh.... merong sabit ako diyan, boss.
Mas que anong gamit pa ang i-suot ko, hindi pa rin pogi, eh...
;f
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Old 09-16-2004, 19:20   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by jasonub
as long as the stage props hold up, the RO wont call you to fix the props;f

but if its value you cant beat those. For me i need to look fast so that they think im fast. Gamit palang panalo na! even if you dont win anything pogi ka naman;f ;f ;f
poging pogi ka nga sa bates boots mo...how much is the damage including shipping cost if u ordered it over the net? can u give us ur final assessment regarding performance and reliability issues. how long have u been using it?
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Old 09-16-2004, 20:17   #19
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RE bates boots, got it from the sportsmans guide. it was on specials and got it for about 50 dollars, had it shipped to my friend in usa who happened to be coming back after a week.

its the best shoe for shooting for me. i was inclined to but what the burner uses. adidas gsg9, 200 plus dollars!!! Good thing there was an alternative. its soft and grips all the surfaces that i encountered in competition.

good luck in finding a good deal. not sure if sportsmans guide still carries it. its the bates scout boots by the way. daming klaseng bates
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Old 09-17-2004, 04:13   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by New_comer

Also, is sound db a linearly subtractable quantity? Point is, the gun's report is much, much more bearable, even with the use of tissue paper, when plugged in the ear canal. I mean, is there any reliable study of degree of noise strenght after the plug or muffs? To my observation, it's the high pitch of the sonic boom that's really hurtful, not the low bass-like sound that remains when I put on my muffs.

Thanks for any replies.

Hi NC

The decibel (dB) scale is graduated logarithmcally, but unless my brain is really fried, you can add up NNR dB simply and then subtract that from the noise level (also measured in dB): Ear protection devices are tested using microphones to measure noise reduction, which is to say, they take a percentage of the nopise level away. Perentage is like a one-step reverse logarithm, right? So the NNR of multiple protection devices can be added as if linear and subtracted from the noise level as if linear.

Or maybe my brain really IS extra black and crispy.
;g ;g ;g
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Old 09-17-2004, 06:57   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by horge
Hi NC

The decibel (dB) scale is graduated logarithmcally, but unless my brain is really fried, you can add up NNR dB simply and then subtract that from the noise level (also measured in dB): Ear protection devices are tested using microphones to measure noise reduction, which is to say, they take a percentage of the nopise level away. Perentage is like a one-step reverse logarithm, right? So the NNR of multiple protection devices can be added as if linear and subtracted from the noise level as if linear.

Or maybe my brain really IS extra black and crispy.
;g ;g ;g
Thanks, horge ;f Somehow. I knew you were going to take on this question soon enough...

Seems like you're right on! ^c

Anywaysm, I'd like to add some things I got from howstuffworks:
Quote:
Approximate Decibel Level Examples
0 the quietest sound you can hear
30 whisper, quiet library
60 normal conversation, sewing machine, typewriter
90 lawnmower, shop tools, truck traffic, 8 hours per day is the maximum exposure (protects 90% of people)
100 chainsaw, pneumatic drill, snowmobile; 2 hours per day is the maximum exposure without protection
115 sandblasting, loud rock concert, auto horn; 15 minutes per day is the maximum exposure without protection.
140 gun muzzle blast, jet engine; Noise causes pain and even brief exposure injures unprotected ears. Maximum allowed noise with hearing protector...

Habitual exposure to noise above 85 dB will cause a gradual hearing loss in a significant number of individuals, and louder noises will accelerate this damage. For unprotected ears, the allowed exposure time decreases by ONE HALF FOR EACH 5 dB INCREASE in the average noise level. For instance, exposure is limited to 8 hr at 90 dB, 4 hr at 95 dB, and 2 hr at 100 dB. The highest permissible noise exposure for the UNPROTECTED ear is 115 dB for 15 MINUTES/day. Any noise above 140 dB IS NOT PERMITTED...

What Are Hearing Protectors? How Effective Are They?

Hearing protection devices decrease the intensity of sound that reaches the eardrum. They come in two forms: earplugs and earmuffs.

Earplugs are small inserts that fit into the outer ear canal, To be effective they must totally block the ear canal with an airtight seal. they are available in a variety of shapes and sizes to fit individual ear canals and can be custom made. For people who have trouble keeping them in their ear, they can be fitted to a headband.

Earmuffs fit over the entire outer ear to form an air seal so the entire circumference of the ear canal is blocked, and they are held in place by an adjustable band. Earmuffs will not seal around eyeglasses or long hair, and the adjustable headband tension must he sufficient to hold earmuffs firmly around the ear. Earplugs must be snugly sealed so the entire circumference of the ear canal is blocked. An improperly fitted, dirty or worn-out plug may not seal and can irritate the ear canal.

Properly fitted earplugs or muffs reduce noise 15 to 30 dB. The better earplugs and muffs are approximately equal in sound reduction, although earplugs are better for low frequency noise and earmuffs for high frequency noise. Simultaneous use of earplugs and muffs usually adds 10 to 15 dB more protection than either used alone. Combined use should be considered when noise exceeds 105 dB.

Why Can't I Just Stuff My Ears with Cotton?

Ordinary cotton halls or tissue paper wads stuffed into the ear canals are very poor protectors; they reduce noise only by approximately 7 dB.
So goes that tissue paper idea... ;g

Anyways, I'd like to focus on that 15 minute exposure limit at 115kb. Let's say I am adequately 'muffed', and the longest I should stay in a noisy environment (gun range) is 15 minutes per day, how many rounds do you think a shooter could take before the safe exposure limit is breached. Is it correct to assume that this rule practically dictates how many rounds I could fire/be subjeced to in a day's session? 900 secs is not a lot of time to shoot... ;I ;g Your thoughts....
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Old 09-17-2004, 09:18   #22
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I'm getting the Peltors. Probably the ones referred by Kristiansen. P7,000 is not that bad to protect hearing. Might also be good for next time I go to a rock concert.

The other problem is inhalation of lead and mercury vapors in an indoor shooting range. Now that IS a problem. Oh hell, might as well get a spacesuit.
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Old 09-17-2004, 10:11   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by antediluvianist
I'm getting the Peltors. Probably the ones referred by Kristiansen. P7,000 is not that bad to protect hearing. Might also be good for next time I go to a rock concert.

The other problem is inhalation of lead and mercury vapors in an indoor shooting range. Now that IS a problem. Oh hell, might as well get a spacesuit.
i use this againts organic fume, but ill bet shooters who will wear this will be laughed at.
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Old 09-17-2004, 10:17   #24
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indoor range gear

if shooters are really desperate in indoor ranges this will come in handy..

Shooter are you ready?

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Old 09-20-2004, 00:49   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by jasonub
RE bates boots, got it from the sportsmans guide. it was on specials and got it for about 50 dollars, had it shipped to my friend in usa who happened to be coming back after a week.

its the best shoe for shooting for me. i was inclined to but what the burner uses. adidas gsg9, 200 plus dollars!!! Good thing there was an alternative. its soft and grips all the surfaces that i encountered in competition.

good luck in finding a good deal. not sure if sportsmans guide still carries it. its the bates scout boots by the way. daming klaseng bates
I also got the Bates Scout from Sportsmans when i saw the thread in BE forums. It's very comfortable and traction is not a problem on dry surface. The only problem is mud, last match sa Balayan parang naging flat soles yung Bates. The sole was not designed for mud at all as it has a problem shedding the mud kahit taktakin mo, masyadong dikit-dikit kasi yung studs.
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