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Old 09-16-2004, 08:21   #1
Patricia
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Difference between DOT and Snell helmets

Anyone know?
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Old 09-16-2004, 09:14   #2
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Yes. But if I may summarize for the sake of brevity, the Snell Foundation testing standards are more stringent than the DOT standards.
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Old 09-16-2004, 09:19   #3
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Ok. So I'm safer with a Snell?
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Old 09-16-2004, 09:26   #4
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Yes, all other factors being equal, assuming equally well fitting helmets, non-expired, undamaged, etc, you are at least as well protected in a Snell Certified helmet as you are in a DOT only certified helmet. DOT certification is essentially on the "honor" system, by the way.
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Old 09-16-2004, 09:35   #5
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Link re difference between DOT and Snell

I only buy Snell. No exceptions.

-NL
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Old 09-16-2004, 10:03   #6
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Thanks Ned, that is exactly what I was looking for. Excellent article!

I knew Snell was better (my husband will only wear a Snell helmet) but I was curious why it was better. Looks like I'll be buying a Snell too.

Thanks all!
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Old 09-16-2004, 17:52   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sidearmor
Thanks Ned, that is exactly what I was looking for. Excellent article!

I knew Snell was better (my husband will only wear a Snell helmet) but I was curious why it was better. Looks like I'll be buying a Snell too.

Thanks all!
Sorry, I was getting ready to leave for work this AM, and I didn't have time to explain the differences in detail. The article that Ned posted is a nice explanation, and on cursory review, appears to be correct in its factual details.
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Old 09-16-2004, 17:55   #8
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No problem. Do you guys recommend any particular brand? Are the more expensive ones necessarily better?
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Old 09-16-2004, 19:08   #9
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Price and safety are not related. Any Snell certified helmet will give you protection. Price and comfort (alas) usually are. I'd go to someone who does a lot of the same type of riding you want to do (and this is important) in the same places you want to go. They will give you the best advice.

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Old 09-16-2004, 19:23   #10
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helmut

Quote:
Originally posted by Sidearmor
Ok. So I'm safer with a Snell?
Just don't get a helmut that is view and sound restrictive.
BTW, safe is relative to skill and ability.
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Old 09-16-2004, 20:33   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ned Ludd
Price and safety are not related. Any Snell certified helmet will give you protection. Price and comfort (alas) usually are. I'd go to someone who does a lot of the same type of riding you want to do (and this is important) in the same places you want to go. They will give you the best advice.

-NL
Good advice, will do.
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Old 09-16-2004, 20:37   #12
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Re: helmut

Quote:
Originally posted by nu2carry
Just don't get a helmut that is view and sound restrictive.
BTW, safe is relative to skill and ability.
I will be wearing a full face helmet. My husband insists. He's been riding for many years so I'm gonna trust him on that one.

I know he will agree with your 2nd sentence whole heartedley. I will be starting out slow and careful, under his instruction. Since I need to get a permit first, I've been reading through the AZ DOT's motorcycle manual. It actually has some great tips.
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Old 09-16-2004, 21:35   #13
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Re: Re: helmut

Quote:
Originally posted by Sidearmor
I will be wearing a full face helmet. My husband insists. He's been riding for many years so I'm gonna trust him on that one.

I know he will agree with your 2nd sentence whole heartedley. I will be starting out slow and careful, under his instruction. Since I need to get a permit first, I've been reading through the AZ DOT's motorcycle manual. It actually has some great tips.
Modern full face helmets do not restrict your view of anything important at all. A vehicle would have to be traveling at a couple hundred miles an hour to smack you in the side once it's past your field of view.

As for sound, it's also not important. Lots of long distance riders even wear ear plugs to reduce fatigue. Wind blowing in your ears at freeway speeds can cause damage over time.

Good call on the full face, if you ever crash, your cheek and jaw bones will thank you. Not to mention they are a whole lot more pleasant if you ride in the rain. Take a look at the HJC AC-10 and AC-11. Both are a very nice helmet for the money. Arai and Shoie may be nicer, but there is no gaurantee they will be any better in a crash. I know my old HJC CL-12 kept my noggin in good shape when I went down.

Regards,
Glen
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Old 09-16-2004, 21:40   #14
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Thanks Glen, I will check those.
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Old 09-17-2004, 03:47   #15
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Quote:
Do you guys recommend any particular brand?
I used to wear Shoei until they chose to eliminate my helmet size. I now wear Arai. I've been very happy with both brands. Both have saved me several times.

Keep the rubber side down, either end!
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Old 09-17-2004, 07:35   #16
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Re: Re: helmut

Quote:
Originally posted by Sidearmor
I will be wearing a full face helmet. My husband insists. He's been riding for many years so I'm gonna trust him on that one.I know he will agree with your 2nd sentence whole heartedley. I will be starting out slow and careful, under his instruction. Since I need to get a permit first, I've been reading through the AZ DOT's motorcycle manual. It actually has some great tips.
I recommend taking a MSF course in your area:

http://www.msf-usa.org/

Or the Harley Rider's Edge Course.

The basic course was the best thing I ever did and I will be taking the experienced rider's course soon. We took the course on Rebel 250s. As a bonus, in some states successfully completing the rider's course exempts you from taking the rider test portion to get the "M" endorsement on your license.

I wear a full-face helmet also - a Nolan 100-E flip.

Last edited by Bandalero; 09-17-2004 at 07:39..
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Old 09-17-2004, 07:49   #17
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Re: Re: Re: helmut

Quote:
Originally posted by 45acp4me
Modern full face helmets do not restrict your view of anything important at all. A vehicle would have to be traveling at a couple hundred miles an hour to smack you in the side once it's past your field of view.

As for sound, it's also not important. Lots of long distance riders even wear ear plugs to reduce fatigue. Wind blowing in your ears at freeway speeds can cause damage over time.

Good call on the full face, if you ever crash, your cheek and jaw bones will thank you. Not to mention they are a whole lot more pleasant if you ride in the rain. Take a look at the HJC AC-10 and AC-11. Both are a very nice helmet for the money. Arai and Shoie may be nicer, but there is no gaurantee they will be any better in a crash. I know my old HJC CL-12 kept my noggin in good shape when I went down.

Regards,
Glen
Glen, I usually don't take issue with someone when I know they are or maybe right, and you have a pretty good track record. But Sidearmor just look up issues on the internet regarding Helmut’s and you will see a wide range of statistics.

My ex-wife was an ER nurse and worked with a lot of motorcycle trauma and trauma MD's. The general consensus was that Helmut’s were beneficial in reducing massive head trauma but the crux was that aside from most of these riders complaining of having "not seen" or "not hearing" just before impact when the accident did occur, it was often broken necks that resulted from the accident.

Many of the neuro MD's deduced that the impact was transferred from the Helmut to the neck.

Now I am not trying to jack this thread and turn it into an anti-Helmut thing but the truth is that I have been riding motorized 2 wheel vehicles for 40 years and I have rode with and with out helmets. I have also worn full facers and in my personal experience I want to hear and see with as little restriction as possible.

Trust me when you hear a car rushing up behind you while in motion or sitting at a light or a stop sign you will understand what I am saying.

Put your full-face Helmut on and sit in your kitchen or living room and pick a peripheral point on both sides without turning your head. Then take the Helmut off and do the same thing and see what if anything you lose in perception.

Driving at highway speeds is but one mode and yes you can dampen noise by other methods if you choose to. But the real danger is in the city driving you will be doing if that is where you will be riding.

Hear is an article a friend sent me a while back.
http://members.tripod.com/~B_u_d/helmut.htm

Just take a really good motorcycle course like the MSF and ride like everyone wants to kill you and you will have years of enjoyment. Motorcycle riding ranks #2 behind flying in my favorite things to do. It is one of the most fun and enjoyable things you will do.

Stay well.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:18   #18
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Re: Re: Re: helmut

Quote:
Originally posted by Bandalero
I recommend taking a MSF course in your area:

http://www.msf-usa.org/

Or the Harley Rider's Edge Course.

The basic course was the best thing I ever did and I will be taking the experienced rider's course soon. We took the course on Rebel 250s. As a bonus, in some states successfully completing the rider's course exempts you from taking the rider test portion to get the "M" endorsement on your license.

I wear a full-face helmet also - a Nolan 100-E flip.
Thanks, I've looked into the MSF course. Unfortunately, I thinkt he closest is 140 miles away, and the course is 3 days long. I would like to make the time to take it, we'll see.
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Old 09-17-2004, 08:32   #19
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nu2carry, I'll admit I have zero experience riding, but I don't think I could ever feel comforatable riding without a helmet, just like I don't drive my truck without wearing my seat belt. I only skimmed the article you linked, but frankly, their data does not seem complete. They don't take Snell helmets into account, and they don't seem to compare apples to apples. It is one thing to compare the number of riders without helmets that were involved in accidents, to the number of riders with helmets involved in accidents, but what I'd really like to see is a comparison between what happens to riders with and without helmets in similiar accidents. But no matter, I'm sure that we could have a very long thread going concerning a with vs without discussion. I will be wearing one, so in my thread, the point is kind of moot.

As my husband tells me, your first and most important safety device is your brain. He would agree with your "ride like everyone wants to kill you". He has told me how important it is to remain hyper-alert 100% of the time.
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Old 09-17-2004, 09:00   #20
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Re: Re: Re: Re: helmut

Quote:
Originally posted by nu2carry

My ex-wife was an ER nurse and worked with a lot of motorcycle trauma and trauma MD's. The general consensus was that Helmut’s were beneficial in reducing massive head trauma but the crux was that aside from most of these riders complaining of having "not seen" or "not hearing" just before impact when the accident did occur, it was often broken necks that resulted from the accident.


I must respectfully ask, how is this different from any accident? "I didn't see them" is what cops always here when filling out accident reports, otherwise the boner wouldn't have made the move they did. If you are riding properly, you are scanning far enough ahead for boneheads ready to make stupid moves. When you stop doing this, you will get in trouble.

I also don't buy the "not hearing" bit. Sealed up in a car you don't hear much of anything, you depend on your eyes. The only thing you might need to hear that will be tougher is an emergency vehicle in the distance.

Many of the neuro MD's deduced that the impact was transferred from the Helmut to the neck.

And what would have happened with the helmet not there? Crunch goes the cranium.

Now I am not trying to jack this thread and turn it into an anti-Helmut thing but the truth is that I have been riding motorized 2 wheel vehicles for 40 years and I have rode with and with out helmets. I have also worn full facers and in my personal experience I want to hear and see with as little restriction as possible.

I can't make any arguments here, this is a personal preference thing.

Trust me when you hear a car rushing up behind you while in motion or sitting at a light or a stop sign you will understand what I am saying.

I just never stop looking at my mirrors at lights. I'm darn near fixated on my mirrors until I see a couple cars stop behind me for some protection. Even then I still glance down at them now and then.

Put your full-face Helmut on and sit in your kitchen or living room and pick a peripheral point on both sides without turning your head. Then take the Helmut off and do the same thing and see what if anything you lose in perception.

I can see everything I need to just fine. I would be totally my fault if I got hit from the side, I wasn't looking far enough ahead if it happens. For something to start traveling and hit me after it's passed my field of view, it would be moving like a bullet.

Hear is an article a friend sent me a while back.
http://members.tripod.com/~B_u_d/helmut.htm


I agree that helmets should be a choice, not mandatory. While the article may talk about deaths, they don't go into severe injury. A GT member had to have her jaw and ear reconstructed after her crash becase they were torn off. A full face helmet instead of a half helmet would have allowed her to come out with fewer injuries. The worst part was she was in a coma for weeks, who knows how much safer she would have been with a full face. The only downside to a full face in this situation is trying to remove it when the head is swollen and there are possible spinal injuries.

Just take a really good motorcycle course like the MSF and ride like everyone wants to kill you and you will have years of enjoyment. Motorcycle riding ranks #2 behind flying in my favorite things to do. It is one of the most fun and enjoyable things you will do.

Stay well.
I agree 100% that the MSF course and putting time into dirt riding are the best ways to learn.

Regards,
Glen
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