GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2004, 12:00   #1
grampi
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
Anyone who knows anything about obtaining federal employment - Please help!

I'm a veteran seeking federal employment. If anyone could offer me some help in this area, it would be the best X-mas gift of all!
grampi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2004, 23:56   #2
skyboss_4evr
Senior Member
 
skyboss_4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,179


http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/series_search.asp

Check out this web site. You'll find it VERY useful.
__________________
"Courage is not the absence of fear... it is the conquest of it."
skyboss_4evr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2004, 03:53   #3
grampi
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally posted by skyboss_4evr
http://jobsearch.usajobs.opm.gov/series_search.asp

Check out this web site. You'll find it VERY useful.
I'm very aware of this web site. In fact, I use it all the time. I've been applying for federal employment now for almost 3 years with no luck and I'm looking for someone who may be able to give me some pointers that may help me get hired.
grampi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2004, 13:16   #4
Black Tiger
Senior Member
 
Black Tiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Leesburg, FL
Posts: 1,344
Send a message via MSN to Black Tiger
www.cia.gov is hiring people; specially if you have military experience.

You can also search www.usajobs.com or www.monster.com; I know Lockheed-Martin, here in Orlando is always looking for military personnel that have experience with powerplant, structural and electronics maintnance experience.
__________________
Black Rifle Club Member #46
Florida Glockers Club Member #22
Niner's Club Member #112
NRA Member
MOLON LABE!
Black Tiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2004, 15:27   #5
kaizoku
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 948
...

Last edited by kaizoku; 11-24-2005 at 23:49..
kaizoku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2004, 14:14   #6
WIG19
Light left on
 
WIG19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Renegade State
Posts: 9,385
See my response to your other post

here.
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread....hreadid=313813
__________________
"Telling someone they're about to step on a landmine isn't a threat - it's good manners."
- Mike
WIG19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2004, 06:28   #7
cadillacguns
Senior Member
 
cadillacguns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Indianapolis, IN USA
Posts: 4,122
www.tsa.gov cannot turn down a qualified Vet.
__________________
GLOCKS #1 FAN!!!


"IN GLOCK WE TRUST"
cadillacguns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2004, 06:54   #8
NRA_guy
Unreconstructed
 
NRA_guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mississippi, CSA
Posts: 3,441
As with everything in life "knowing someone" is the best way to get what you want.

As you have experienced, blindly submitting a resume works only if the selecting official has no clue regarding anybody on the list of qualified applicants. That is pretty rare. Typically when there is a vacancy, folks who have friends needing a job contact the selecting official by phone and give them a sales pitch for their friend. It always starts with, "I see you have a vacancy. Now I don't want to influence your choice, but I have a friend . . . " Illegal and improper? Yes. But it goes on.

You might also note that many positions (e.g., computer related and other service type jobs) are being contracted out. The Federal government doesn't hire the workers, they contract with some company to provide the services. In many instances, we simply piggy-back on a GSA contract by issuing a delivery order for the needed services. It saves advertising and managing a contract at the local level.

What kind of position are you seeking?

What geographical area?

I'm a Federal manager, myself.

NRA_guy
NRA_guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2004, 17:47   #9
grampi
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally posted by NRA_guy
As with everything in life "knowing someone" is the best way to get what you want.

As you have experienced, blindly submitting a resume works only if the selecting official has no clue regarding anybody on the list of qualified applicants. That is pretty rare. Typically when there is a vacancy, folks who have friends needing a job contact the selecting official by phone and give them a sales pitch for their friend. It always starts with, "I see you have a vacancy. Now I don't want to influence your choice, but I have a friend . . . " Illegal and improper? Yes. But it goes on.

You might also note that many positions (e.g., computer related and other service type jobs) are being contracted out. The Federal government doesn't hire the workers, they contract with some company to provide the services. In many instances, we simply piggy-back on a GSA contract by issuing a delivery order for the needed services. It saves advertising and managing a contract at the local level.

What kind of position are you seeking?

What geographical area?

I'm a Federal manager, myself.

NRA_guy
There is a way to deal with the people who hire using the "good ol' buddy" system. It's called filing a claim with DOL's VETS rep. I'm in the process of doing that right now. When a claim is filed, all the info used during the hiring process must be divulged by the hiring agency. Hiring officials caught violating the hiring rules face very serious penalties, up to and including termination.

BTW, the career field I'm applying for is electronics technician (series 0856), and there are other series in the 26XX that apply as well. I'm looking basically nationwide.
grampi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2004, 18:17   #10
NRA_guy
Unreconstructed
 
NRA_guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mississippi, CSA
Posts: 3,441
Quote:
Originally posted by grampi
There is a way to deal with the people who hire using the "good ol' buddy" system. It's called filing a claim with DOL's VETS rep. I'm in the process of doing that right now. When a claim is filed, all the info used during the hiring process must be divulged by the hiring agency. Hiring officials caught violating the hiring rules face very serious penalties, up to and including termination.

BTW, the career field I'm applying for is electronics technician (series 0856), and there are other series in the 26XX that apply as well. I'm looking basically nationwide.
I agree, but most selecting officials are careful enough to be able to justify whatever selection they make.

You might prevail if you were competing with non-vets. But if another vet got the job, and you are just comparing resumes, you have a tough fight.

DOD tends to give real priority to vets. Not sure about the other agencies.

White guys had a hard time competing in years past, but most of that (giving preference to women and minorities through "upward mobility", "quotas", and "goals") has subsided.

I will check around a little and see if I can find anything in your field.

NRA_guy

Last edited by NRA_guy; 12-24-2004 at 18:20..
NRA_guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2004, 08:47   #11
grampi
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally posted by NRA_guy
I agree, but most selecting officials are careful enough to be able to justify whatever selection they make.

You might prevail if you were competing with non-vets. But if another vet got the job, and you are just comparing resumes, you have a tough fight.

DOD tends to give real priority to vets. Not sure about the other agencies.

White guys had a hard time competing in years past, but most of that (giving preference to women and minorities through "upward mobility", "quotas", and "goals") has subsided.

I will check around a little and see if I can find anything in your field.

NRA_guy
I appreciate your help.

The reason I'll be using to file my claims is failure of the agency to notify the disabled vet (me) of the proposed passover. Any time a hiring agency decides not to hire a disabled vet who meets the minimum qualification requirements of the position and is 30% or more disabled, they must notify both the vet and the OPM of the proposed passover. The OPM then decides whether the vet may be passed over. The final decision as to who gets hired is up to the OPM, not the hiring agency. None of the agencies I've applied with have notified me (and I suspect they're not notifying the OPM either) of their decision to pass me over. This is clearly a violation of the hiring laws. The DOL VETS rep I've been working with has seen cases where vets have filed claims against agencies for this very reason, and the vets were then offered positions by the agencies as a type of settlement. The vet is then protected by anti-retrobution laws because this could cause some hard feelings within the agency.

Just to let you know, I've applied for several DOD positions with the Army, Navy and over 100 positions with the Air Force and I haven't received a single interview. They have also been violating this notification rule and I will be filing claims against them as well.
grampi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2004, 08:58   #12
ThreadKiller
Socialism Sucks
 
ThreadKiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,398


Screw Uncle Sam

? I did two years with the USPS as an electronics tech. Worst job I've ever had and by far and away the worst employer I've ever had to work for.

Seniority is all that matters in civil service. Ability really isn't part of the equation. Intolerable situation in my view. I gladly left for a job back in the private sector where ability is not discouraged and initiative is not normally punished.

Tim
__________________
"Nannyism is fascism with training wheels." -- R. L. Root
ThreadKiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2004, 11:31   #13
grampi
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
Re: Screw Uncle Sam

Quote:
Originally posted by ThreadKiller
? I did two years with the USPS as an electronics tech. Worst job I've ever had and by far and away the worst employer I've ever had to work for.

Seniority is all that matters in civil service. Ability really isn't part of the equation. Intolerable situation in my view. I gladly left for a job back in the private sector where ability is not discouraged and initiative is not normally punished.

Tim
I don't know anyone whose worked for the USPS, so I can't speak for them, but everyone I know or have talked to about working for the government in general have been very happy employees. Maybe your experience was more the exception than the rule.
grampi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2004, 12:58   #14
BinLurking
Your Phone
 
BinLurking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In your backyard
Posts: 292
Deleted my post, it's pointless. You will only believe what you want to believe anyway. MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR. BTW just out of curiousity, do you know what "stoppers" are? Stoppers have higher priority than diabled vets.

Last edited by BinLurking; 12-25-2004 at 13:03..
BinLurking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2004, 15:18   #15
grampi
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally posted by BinLurking
Deleted my post, it's pointless. You will only believe what you want to believe anyway. MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR. BTW just out of curiousity, do you know what "stoppers" are? Stoppers have higher priority than diabled vets.
Not quite sure where this is coming from. No I don't know what stoppers are, I've never heard of them. Apparently, disabled vets aren't a very high priority or I would've been hired a long time ago!
grampi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2004, 07:05   #16
NRA_guy
Unreconstructed
 
NRA_guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mississippi, CSA
Posts: 3,441
A "stopper" is an individual who is entitled to a vacant position due to certain circumstances. They must be offered the job first regardless of the eligibles register.

For example, an employee who is being terminated because his job is being abolished (not for disciplinary reasons) would have rights to a vacant position.

Frequently, civilians who have volunteered to work in Europe are entitled to positions when they come back to the US. They are "stoppers".

A selecting official used to be able to check the stopper list before he decided to advertise a position vacancy. If he wanted to hire a friend and there was a stopper, he would simply wait until the stopper list cleared.

Now, selecting officials cannot check the stopper list before announcing a vacancy. It keeps us a little more honest.

By the way, I am straight up. I have never "had anyone in mind". I have been hiring folks (engineers, clerical, and technical folks) for 25 years and have never pre-selected anyone.

Is your disability service related? I.e., are you a 5 or a 10-point vet?

Passing over a 10-point vet is considered a serious offense and could rarely be justified where I come from.

NRA_guy
NRA_guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2004, 07:50   #17
grampi
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally posted by NRA_guy
A "stopper" is an individual who is entitled to a vacant position due to certain circumstances. They must be offered the job first regardless of the eligibles register.

For example, an employee who is being terminated because his job is being abolished (not for disciplinary reasons) would have rights to a vacant position.

Frequently, civilians who have volunteered to work in Europe are entitled to positions when they come back to the US. They are "stoppers".

A selecting official used to be able to check the stopper list before he decided to advertise a position vacancy. If he wanted to hire a friend and there was a stopper, he would simply wait until the stopper list cleared.

Now, selecting officials cannot check the stopper list before announcing a vacancy. It keeps us a little more honest.

By the way, I am straight up. I have never "had anyone in mind". I have been hiring folks (engineers, clerical, and technical folks) for 25 years and have never pre-selected anyone.

Is your disability service related? I.e., are you a 5 or a 10-point vet?

Passing over a 10-point vet is considered a serious offense and could rarely be justified where I come from.

NRA_guy
Yes, my disability is service connected. I'm 50% disabled, giving me 10 points (compensable).

So have you ever passed over a 30% or more disabled vet without notifying the vet or the OPM? Is there any meat to this law? And what's up with non-competitive status? At first it sounds like it really gives the vet an advantage, but I've come to find out that hiring agencies rarely if ever consider applicants non-competitively, and its use is completely up to the agency. None of the agencies I've applied with have used mine. What's the point of having this status if hiring agencies won't use it?
grampi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2004, 08:37   #18
grampi
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally posted by NRA_guy
A "stopper" is an individual who is entitled to a vacant position due to certain circumstances. They must be offered the job first regardless of the eligibles register.

For example, an employee who is being terminated because his job is being abolished (not for disciplinary reasons) would have rights to a vacant position.

Frequently, civilians who have volunteered to work in Europe are entitled to positions when they come back to the US. They are "stoppers".

A selecting official used to be able to check the stopper list before he decided to advertise a position vacancy. If he wanted to hire a friend and there was a stopper, he would simply wait until the stopper list cleared.

Now, selecting officials cannot check the stopper list before announcing a vacancy. It keeps us a little more honest.

By the way, I am straight up. I have never "had anyone in mind". I have been hiring folks (engineers, clerical, and technical folks) for 25 years and have never pre-selected anyone.

Is your disability service related? I.e., are you a 5 or a 10-point vet?

Passing over a 10-point vet is considered a serious offense and could rarely be justified where I come from.

NRA_guy
Yes, my disability is service connected. I'm 50% disabled, giving me 10 points (compensable).

So have you ever passed over a 30% or more disabled vet without notifying the vet or the OPM? Is there any meat to this law? And what's up with non-competitive status? At first it sounds like it really gives the vet an advantage, but I've come to find out that hiring agencies rarely if ever consider applicants non-competitively, and its use is completely up to the agency. None of the agencies I've applied with have used mine. What's the point of having this status if hiring agencies won't use it?
grampi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2004, 08:55   #19
NRA_guy
Unreconstructed
 
NRA_guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mississippi, CSA
Posts: 3,441
Quote:
Originally posted by grampi
Yes, my disability is service connected. I'm 50% disabled, giving me 10 points (compensable).

So have you ever passed over a 30% or more disabled vet without notifying the vet or the OPM? Is there any meat to this law? And what's up with non-competitive status? At first it sounds like it really gives the vet an advantage, but I've come to find out that hiring agencies rarely if ever consider applicants non-competitively, and its use is completely up to the agency. None of the agencies I've applied with have used mine. What's the point of having this status if hiring agencies won't use it?
No, I've never passed over a vet. But I hired a 30% vet once. A draftsman. Turned out his disability was mental. He was a great guy but got into prescription drugs pretty heavily. (He saw and talked with God in teh passenger seat of his car and contemplated geting on a roof and shooting folks coming in our front gate.) Since rehab, he is a terrific guy, but no longer working for us.

As I recall, every applicant gets a notification of selection/non-selection. (I believe that you only get the name of the selectee and why you were not selected if you ask.) In years past, our Personnel folks would rate all applicants and give the selecting official the top 3 names. If there was a qualified 5 or 10-point vet, he was at the top and he was your choice unless you could produce a strong reason why you did not choose him.

Now, Personnel just passes along the whole list (could be 30 or 40 names with varying degrees of qualifications) to the selecting official for him to rate and select from. Not sure how vets are handled now as I have not filled a vacancy lately.

Most of my dealings are with our Personnel folks. They interface with OPM and do the actual advertising of the vacancy. So if OPM gets notified of the non-selection of a vet, I would never know about it---other than having to justify the non-selection to my Personnel folks.

Our Personnel folks are civilians who work for the US Army. I work in the Corps of Engineers (an Army MACOM).

I will pass along some of your questions and comments to our Personnel folks and see what they say.

Good luck.

NRA_guy
NRA_guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2004, 09:36   #20
grampi
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally posted by NRA_guy
No, I've never passed over a vet. But I hired a 30% vet once. A draftsman. Turned out his disability was mental. He was a great guy but got into prescription drugs pretty heavily. (He saw and talked with God in teh passenger seat of his car and contemplated geting on a roof and shooting folks coming in our front gate.) Since rehab, he is a terrific guy, but no longer working for us.

As I recall, every applicant gets a notification of selection/non-selection. (I believe that you only get the name of the selectee and why you were not selected if you ask.) In years past, our Personnel folks would rate all applicants and give the selecting official the top 3 names. If there was a qualified 5 or 10-point vet, he was at the top and he was your choice unless you could produce a strong reason why you did not choose him.

Now, Personnel just passes along the whole list (could be 30 or 40 names with varying degrees of qualifications) to the selecting official for him to rate and select from. Not sure how vets are handled now as I have not filled a vacancy lately.

Most of my dealings are with our Personnel folks. They interface with OPM and do the actual advertising of the vacancy. So if OPM gets notified of the non-selection of a vet, I would never know about it---other than having to justify the non-selection to my Personnel folks.

Our Personnel folks are civilians who work for the US Army. I work in the Corps of Engineers (an Army MACOM).

I will pass along some of your questions and comments to our Personnel folks and see what they say.

Good luck.

NRA_guy
Here's what I don't understand. Since I received my disability rating in September of this year, I've applied for roughly 25 vacancies with various agencies. In all cases except for about 3 or 4, I was rated as qualified for the position and yet I haven't received a single passover notice. I realize the selection hasn't been made for all these vacancies, but a good number of them have. Can there actually be this many agencies who are unaware of this notification rule, or are just igoring it? I can possible see why they wouldn't want to make these notifications because the OPM supposedly makes the final selection in these cases, but what if these agencies get caught doing this? I would think the risk is too high. Maybe I just don't know what their definition of "passover" is. If being passed over means not hiring a qualified disabled vet, then they have been violating the rules big time. Maybe passover means when the vet ends up being the highest ranked applicant and then the agency decides to hire a lower ranking applicant. What exactly constitutes a "passover?"
grampi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2004, 09:40   #21
ThreadKiller
Socialism Sucks
 
ThreadKiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 1,398


Screw Uncle Sam Part II

It could well be that my experience was the exception rather than the rule. The USPS job was the only federal job I've ever had other than my 6 years in the Navy.

To get hired off the street I had to take a test that took over 4 hours to complete. There were over 100 candidates taking the test at the location I was at and another 100 taking the test 2 hours down the road. It was a tough, exhaustive test covering many, many aspects of electronics and mechanics.

After I was done, I told myself just to be happy to pass it, if I did. A few months later, I found out that I was #1 on the list of selectees. (I scored a 98 with my 5 point military service bonus.) I remember thinking, "Wow, they must have very high expectations of ET's in the USPS with this kind of entrance exam."

Then came real life.

We only had 4 ET's in the facility I worked in. 1 guy had been there 1 year and the other 2 had more than 15 years with the USPS as mechanics or ET's. The two senior ET's, who'll I affectionately refer to as the "Deadwood Brothers" were, to put it simply, stupid. But since the confluence of civil service regs and AFL/CIO corruption made these two jokers fireproof, we were stuck with them.

The most senior of the two did not know how to reload a grease cartridge in a grease gun. He did not know how to format a floppy in a PC. His twin Deadwood brother, told me many times that computers intimidated him. He once spent 3 days replacing a CDROM drive in a computer. The computer wouldn't recognize the CDROM drive at all. The problem? He did not give it a SCSI ID# by putting a jumper where it belonged. He had no idea what a SCSI chain even was.

Meanwhile, I was out on the floor cleaning out the sorting equipment and doing routine maintenance. Am I above doing that? No, not at all. But since the others were senior, that was all that mattered. In my world, the able are assigned the difficult tasks and those unwilling to apply themselves get the lesser jobs. Unfortunately, ability is nothing in the worker's paradise created by the USPS and the AFL/CIO.

So yeah, it was an ego thing with me. I got tired of seeing the Deadwood Brothers get preferential treatment. I got tired of seeing the waste created by a broken and corrupt system. I knew I was the best ET in the shop and got tired of getting the short end of the stick.

It paid good and had great benefits. It wasn't enough though.

I gratefully got out ASAP.

Never again will I be a Federal employee.

Tim
__________________
"Nannyism is fascism with training wheels." -- R. L. Root
ThreadKiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 17:35.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,430
440 Members
990 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42