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Old 03-28-2005, 17:14   #1
lomfs24
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Handheld requirements.

I am looking for a new handheld radio. I don't need a lot of memory places to put channels. But there are a few things that I would like. I don't know what is possible and which ones I can get out of a radio.

This is the need columm.
2m and/or 440 70cM
Field programmable.
Easy channel splits for repeaters.
Normal channel splits as well as abnormal channel splits.
Ability to monitor commercial VHF
Ability to transmit on commercial VHF

This is the WANT columm.
I would like to be able get WX channels (NWS)
Alpha numeric programming for channels.


I don't know if 2m/70cM radios can transmit on commercial VHF or not. I know that some Kenwood commercial VHF radios will transmit on 2m. The reason I need one radio to transmit on both is that I will be with the SAR team and will need to be able to interface with the local sheriff SAR team.

Does such a critter exist, or am I going to be looking at carrying two radios?

I know that some handhelds can be mod'd to get them to transmit on commercial VHF but they are illegal and per board rules I don't want to discuss them here.
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Old 03-28-2005, 19:23   #2
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Basically this is the way that it goes. You can get a commercial radio that has the above features, just have to get the proper OK to be able to use it. You can mod a commercial radio to talk on ham freqs. But then it is no longer acceptable on commercial freqs. It is illegal to mod a ham radio to TX on commercial freqs because it is not a "type accepted" radio. Someone else may be more in depth with telling what kind and where to get a radio. I don't mess much with commercial radios, I am on a SAR team here, we do not work under the Sheriff though, we are under the State EMA. We have a HASTY team comprised of members with Ham licenses. We use them, we have business radios supplied by the gov't to use otherwise. And for close range stuff, FRS.
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Old 03-29-2005, 22:00   #3
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It is illegal to mod a ham to transmit on frequencies not intended for hams (with the exception of MARS/CAP). Therefore, to be totally legal, you'd need to carry two radios. However, for the ham, I'd suggest the Yaesu VX-5R.
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Old 03-29-2005, 22:09   #4
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Am I looking at this right. It looks like the Kenwood TK-2140 and the TK-2160 will both operate from 136 - 174 Mhz. Wouldn't that operate in both the 2 meter ham freq's as well as fire/police/ems range?

http://www.kenwood.net/indexKenwood....atID=1&Group=1
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Old 03-31-2005, 19:43   #5
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Usually they say it will operate in a certain range, but it actually wont TX on all of it. Most all 2m ham radios will RX commercial bands, but are blocked from TX on them. It is easy to mod them, but illegal. Just because it says it "operates" doesnt mean it will TX.


Edited to add: Just in case you didn't know, "TX" means transmit, and "RX" means receive.
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Old 03-31-2005, 22:03   #6
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Yeah, I got that part. But the Kenwoods that I posted says that they will TX on 2M as well as commercial VHF. It least that's the way I read it.
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Old 04-01-2005, 12:44   #7
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I'm not arguing with you, but that doesnt sound right to me. A commercial radio is allowed to operate on ham bands, but then no longer is type accepted to work an commercial. And NO ham radio is allowed to operate on commercail bands because it never was type accepted. I will go look at that radio you listed and check it out.
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Old 04-01-2005, 12:50   #8
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The way I read it, those are both commercial radios only... Anyone else know anything about these radios?
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Old 04-26-2005, 10:18   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by GSD17
I'm not arguing with you, but that doesnt sound right to me. A commercial radio is allowed to operate on ham bands, but then no longer is type accepted to work an commercial. And NO ham radio is allowed to operate on commercail bands because it never was type accepted. I will go look at that radio you listed and check it out.
A commercial radio is allowed to work on both since it is type accepted for commercial and ham doesn't have any type acceptence policy so it can legally be used there too. The commercial radio can flip flop between commercial and ham or both and stay legal. The ham radio can only be ham since it hasn't gone through the type acceptance tests for commercial qaulity. If you mod or change the commercial radio in any way other then just entering frequencies then it is not type accepted for commercial anymore.
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Old 04-26-2005, 10:28   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by lomfs24
Yeah, I got that part. But the Kenwoods that I posted says that they will TX on 2M as well as commercial VHF. It least that's the way I read it.
You are correct the Kenwood 2140 and the 2160 are commercial VHF radios, They will transmit and receive anywhere in the 136-174 mhz frequencies. You would be able to use these radios for both ham and Commercial frequencies.
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Old 04-26-2005, 10:37   #11
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N1PJ, thanks for the info. However, since I started this thread I have purchased a Yaesu VX-5R handheld from ebay. The MARS/CAP mod had been preformed on it prior to my getting it. It also come with some cool extras.

From the way I understand the laws, it is illegal for me to use that radio on commercial or Public Saftey channels.... UNLESS it is an emergency. They way the book that I have reads it says that if you are in an emercency you are able to transmit on any frequency that you think will attract attention. Of course coming up and transmitting on a Sheriff's repeater when there are ham repeaters available is probably not a good idea even in an emergency.
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Old 04-26-2005, 13:35   #12
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Congratulations on the VX-5R purchase! I love mine. I haven't even transmitted on it yet, but it's a blast to scan through the frequencies and see what's out there on HF at night.
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Old 05-26-2005, 09:34   #13
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In an emergency, you are allowed to transmit on any frequency within the appropriate scope of your license. If you have an Amateur Radio license, you would be allowed to TX anywhere in the ham allocation for an emergency. It is not permissible to TX on a public service freq outside of the amateur service. Now, if it was a true emergency, most would be willing to deal with the repercussions of doing so to get help. YMMV
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:13   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by martho
In an emergency, you are allowed to transmit on any frequency within the appropriate scope of your license. If you have an Amateur Radio license, you would be allowed to TX anywhere in the ham allocation for an emergency. It is not permissible to TX on a public service freq outside of the amateur service. Now, if it was a true emergency, most would be willing to deal with the repercussions of doing so to get help. YMMV
Actually not quite accurate. Part 97 says that you can avail yourself of any means of radiocommunication during an emergency involving life, property or stations in distress:

97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.

No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.


97.405 Station in distress.

(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance.

(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a), of any means of radiocommunications at its disposal to assist a station in distress.
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:39   #15
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I was going to recommend the VX5 or newer version of this handheld. I've had mine for five years and continue to be amazed with what it can do in such a small package.

The key to optimal performance is a properly mounted high gain antenna. I'm using a (4.5db 2 meters) Diamond CR627B tri-band using a trunk mount attached to the side of the toolbox of my truck. Even with low power, this antenna does a great job. I bought a Diamond dual-band MR77 mag mount to use on my wife's car. It has 2.15db (on 2 meter) gain and is notably weaker performance.
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Old 06-17-2005, 03:18   #16
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The way I understand the rules: In an emergency, an Amateur radio operator may TX on any frequency he wishes, during tthe scope of the emergency. However, there are some other rules in motion as well, and if you were to transmit on police frequencies and there was an autopatch or an amateur able to make a call available on a repeater within your privileges, you will regret it.
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Old 06-17-2005, 08:38   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by greenlead
The way I understand the rules: In an emergency, an Amateur radio operator may TX on any frequency he wishes, during tthe scope of the emergency. However, there are some other rules in motion as well, and if you were to transmit on police frequencies and there was an autopatch or an amateur able to make a call available on a repeater within your privileges, you will regret it.
greenlead, unfortunately you are correct on this.

In my EmComm III course I answered a question concerning this situation this way:

If I'm in a situation where an LEO is in a life threatening situation, I'll use the quickest method of communicating his predicament and if that means HIS radio so be it. It's a direct link to County/State dispatch and will bypass the 911 Operator. (Morally correct solution here)

My mentor replied, in a way that made me rethink my response in this situation:

That said, and off the record, I learned that this has occurred and the summoning operator was harrassed by the Agency for using Police frequencies. If law enforcement is that protective of its means of communication, and put a "good Samaritan" through the hassles for trying to help an officer in need, I'm not sure I'd want to put myself through that. I guess they figure civilians are too inept at handling an emergency situation and can do it better themselves. I think Agencies would be wise to review/revamp their policies on this.

This situation presents a dilemma to those with the willingness to help LE, but don't want the resulting wrath of authority. You can't be too careful these days!
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Old 06-17-2005, 17:29   #18
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Greenlead and EUPHER, you are correct. If you were to help an LE with his radio you are legal in doing so, so long as there is not another comms method available. That being said, they might harrass you about it but that is all they could do. There were no laws broken and they can harrass away if I knew in my mind that I saved someones life.
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