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Old 01-17-2014, 23:11   #1
Texanmile
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SHTF Guns: Argument Solved

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inp...611419560.html

Learn from folks where S actually has HTF. What do you see most of them using? Eye opener.

I see 1 shotgun and i think a Marlin .22 oddly enough... But for the most part it is mag-fed rifles and most are AKs.

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Old 01-17-2014, 23:36   #2
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AKs are perfect for people who haven't a clue what they're doing. You also see them emptying magazines into the air. . .
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Old 01-17-2014, 23:57   #3
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AKs are perfect for people who haven't a clue what they're doing. You also see them emptying magazines into the air. . .
They are also pretty good for people who do know what they are doing, as well....
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Old 01-18-2014, 00:20   #4
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What's with the yellow tape on the barrels?
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:22   #5
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Originally Posted by Texanmile View Post
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inp...611419560.html

Learn from folks where S actually has HTF. What do you see most of them using? Eye opener.

I see 1 shotgun and i think a Marlin .22 oddly enough... But for the most part it is mag-fed rifles and most are AKs.

The AK platform is a very good one...

..likely the best for their needs..

..& maybe the best for yours!


I bought my 1st AKM about 30 years ago..

..parked an LER mounted RDS on it in the mid 1980's timeframe..

..fed it dirt cheap Chi-Com steel core ammo.....1,440 rd case after case after case..

..and by far it was the most effective gun I ran for years..

..sold it and bought an almost identical replacement in the late 1980's.. (pre-1989 Poly Tech AKS-762 Underfolder)

..and even today....#2 is still a very capable & reliable go-to gun!

As are all the others in my AK Family collection!


But if SHTF happened tomorrow & needing a long gun for short to medium range...

..especially if at night..

..I would grab my night enhanced, suppressed 300 BLK.



As always...


YMMV
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Old 01-18-2014, 07:11   #6
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What's with the yellow tape on the barrels?
Color of the day. When the "uniform" is a white T-shirt, you need something more.
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Old 01-18-2014, 07:15   #7
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Originally Posted by Texanmile View Post
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inp...611419560.html

Learn from folks where S actually has HTF. What do you see most of them using? Eye opener.

I see 1 shotgun and i think a Marlin .22 oddly enough... But for the most part it is mag-fed rifles and most are AKs.
I'd suggest that in a culture of draconian gun laws (you know how many legal gun stores there are in Mexico? Uno.) that availability is what really drives the train.

And *that* is a SHTF lesson. When it really does, you take what you can get and say "thank you".
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Old 01-18-2014, 07:40   #8
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When I need an AK, I'll pick one up out of the dirt.
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Old 01-18-2014, 08:09   #9
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When I need an AK, I'll pick one up out of the dirt.

".... Ain't never been fired, and only dropped once."
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Old 01-18-2014, 09:34   #10
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You got a time machine.'08.
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Old 01-19-2014, 00:42   #11
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AK's are great all around weapons which work for the uninitiated as well as those who know what they are doing... from 3rd world peasant farmer guerrillas to top of the food chain Spetznaz, the AK platform has served millions well, and it would have no problem serving anyone here.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:42   #12
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AK's are great all around weapons which work for the uninitiated as well as those who know what they are doing... from 3rd world peasant farmer guerrillas to top of the food chain Spetznaz, the AK platform has served millions well, and it would have no problem serving anyone here.
i always find the AK vs (insert rifle of the day) threads funny in a way.
it doesnt matter if your running the best/newest toy out there. if you dont have time behind it. and i dont mean sitting at a bench or plinking at the local range kinda time it doesnt matter what platform your running.

that said i run an AK...and g17.
i wore most of the finish off my slide on the 17 the 1st year i owned it from use.arent glocks not supposed to rust ? ...i tried to do the same to my AK.
am i super seal commando...nope....but im sure im better off than the guy who dumped 2500 into a fancy carbine who's only put 500 rounds down range and most of that rapid fire show for his buddies type of "training".

on mexico..you run what you brung or are handed ...i'd rather run an ak, than a marlin 60..than a bolt gun than a bb gun.....
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:12   #13
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When I need an AK, I'll pick one up out of the dirt.
Yeah, but when you do, you know it will work.
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Old 01-19-2014, 06:15   #14
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i always find the AK vs (insert rifle of the day) threads funny in a way.
it doesnt matter if your running the best/newest toy out there. if you dont have time behind it. and i dont mean sitting at a bench or plinking at the local range kinda time it doesnt matter what platform your running.
I have always said this. MOST guys I see at the range are shooting ridiculously over geared AR's, at stupid close ranges, and doing a less than mediocre job.

I can shoot AK/Irons at 100 yards and burn most of these guys with whatever they are shooting...

Again, that isn't ALL of them...but an awful lot.
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:47   #15
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It means nothing that they have AK's. If all I had was an AK, that is what I am gonna use.

That said, the AK is a solid platform and I own a couple of them. It's a venerable combat proven design, but so are a lot of other guns. Find what works best for you and learn how to use it. Learn how to shoot!

I spent a good chunk of yesterday shooting 200-400 yards at steel plates with an SKS. Many rifles will get the job done, if you will.
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Old 01-19-2014, 14:26   #16
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I think about the only argument this settles is semi auto vs bolt, lever, single shot is the way to go.

Way to many things to consider...

I see a lot of vehicles in those photos...so shooting at or through cars is a possibility.

I see a lot of brush and trees....

Distance is difficult to judge since I see urban and country fighting.

Tactics play a huge part in which weapon is "better." As I read from this article, they simply surrounded a town and advanced on it.

I have a feeling most of these folks aren't heavily battle tested while the cartels at least have the "luxury" of fighting other cartels, the U.S and Mexican Governments, etc.

I have a AK. When I settled on one platform or another I took the rifle, the round, price, etc all into consideration.

What people should be watching here is how a bunch of regular old folks took on what is generally considered a well armed and funded private army.
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Old 01-19-2014, 14:28   #17
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I have always said this. MOST guys I see at the range are shooting ridiculously over geared AR's, at stupid close ranges, and doing a less than mediocre job.

I can shoot AK/Irons at 100 yards and burn most of these guys with whatever they are shooting...

Again, that isn't ALL of them...but an awful lot.

Would anyone here really like being known as..

Better than the least proficient??



If not.....then I am going to let you in on a little secret!


Serious tactical shooters (at least the ones I know) normally do not go to static public or private ranges to practice. They might go to a static public/private range for sighting in a gun or verifying zero (@25m with an AR sight-in target)....& sometimes go to a range when out of town just to run some rounds downrange.

Anyone who goes to a static range & benches their weapon (or shoots from a static position) at a single target at a set distance during daylight for the majority or all of their practice time..

.. & expecting Tactical (SHTF) Proficiency is posturing themselves for a BIG letdown SHTF Day...IMO.



IMO.....the more SHTF realistic (DYNAMIC) training is normally done with steel targets for audible & visual feedback unless at extremely close range.....timed holstered/low ready/high ready drills with dueling trees or falling plates (especially if shooting against a competitor)....drawing concealed weapon & firing from cover, quickly moving from cover-to-cover using accurate suppressive fire, two-by-two cover formation, firing from moving vehicles, firing at simulated predators inside vehicles thru steel & glass, firing at UKD targets located in a 90, 180, 270 degree field of fire or even 360 degree circle, low light/night encounters with NVD & IR Lasers....(running suppressed & with tactical comms a plus), fabricating challenging "shoot houses" & "fields of fire", clearing & engaging targets inside structures......the list goes on.


Sooo...for those preppers who are "Static Rangers"...

I say....."Rip off the training wheels guys & gals....train realistically!"



YMMV
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:56   #18
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It's good to see them defending their towns and families. I am pretty sure the firearms are whatever they can get or afford. It's too bad our .gov sent all those firearms to the wrong guys.
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:20   #19
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It's good to see them defending their towns and families. I am pretty sure the firearms are whatever they can get or afford. It's too bad our .gov sent all those firearms to the wrong guys.

+1
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:33   #20
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If I was fighting a bunch of clowns with AKs, and I wasn't well supplied, I'd pull my AK out of the safe too.

That said, it's not the rifle I'd prefer, but it's more than capable of performing 99% of the job.
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:42   #21
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In a SHTF situation you use what you have, not what you want. If all you own is a single shot, shotgun that will be what you depend on. You would also learn to improvise.

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Old 01-20-2014, 12:44   #22
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...Learn from folks where S actually has HTF. What do you see most of them using? Eye opener.

I see 1 shotgun and i think a Marlin .22 oddly enough... But for the most part it is mag-fed rifles and most are AKs.
Yep. As big a fan as I am of lever-action carbines, I don't kid myself that they're equal to a box-fed semiauto in a combat role. I recently bought a semiauto shotgun that I like, but its tube feed is a serious, serious limiter when compared to a box-fed gun.

IMO, the two descriptors an ideal defensive longarm should have are "removable-box-fed" and "semiauto"; and frankly, I'd maybe compromise on the semiauto stipulation before I'd give up the box-fed part. May be a personal foible, but reloading smoothness is very important to me. I'd actually rather have my 1892-designed levergun than the much-adored semiauto M1 Garand, simply because the levergun can be topped off relatively quick & simple.

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In a SHTF situation you use what you have, not what you want. If all you own is a single shot, shotgun that will be what you depend on. You would also learn to improvise...
Yep again; just one more reason to make sure that "what you have" is as good as you can get or afford. If all I had was the tube-fed marlin 60 in that slideshow, I'd definitely use it to the best of my ability; but my goal and my actions are meant to keep that from being the situation.
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:49   #23
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Those people have a tough life, doing a tough job with a tough rifle. If they are really farmers and not other drug dealers, good luck to them.
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Old 01-20-2014, 14:19   #24
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What people should be watching here is how a bunch of regular old folks took on what is generally considered a well armed and funded private army.
Bingo. Folks the real take-home message here isn't AK vs. whatever. It's what happens when private citizens say, 'enough is enough' and get pissed off enough to do what needs to be done! Period.

Good for these folks. We should be helping them out!
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Old 01-20-2014, 14:39   #25
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Good for these folks. We should be helping them out!
Except our Federal tax dollars..

..& borrowed money has gone to well supply their opponents!


And those officials responsible continue to lie about their involvement...

..who exactly has lost their job & went to prison??


Oh yea......Fast & Furious is ....irrelevant!
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