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Old 06-28-2005, 21:04   #1
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: WA
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Scene Smarts/Scene Survival for FF's/EMT's

Greetings fellow glocktalkers,
I am a FF/EMT-B working for a med. size dept in Wa. State. We run ALS engines, transport provided by AMR. I am looking for any info that you all may have concerning scene smarts/scene survival specifically related to EMS operations (i.e. aggressive animals, aggressive significant others! etc). Are there any training programs directly related to my subject? We have had some scenarios that ended safely but had potential to end badly. I am accepting any and all input.

Thanks for your time,
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Old 07-01-2005, 17:26   #2
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Call PD and wait in your vehicle, down the block if need be. Why try to defuse the situation yourself and get hurt in the process. Then you're worthless to the initial patient you were called for in the first place. My partner and I come first when it comes to safety. Unless it's one of our own or a member's family, I could care less about what's going on inside. Until my dept gives me pepper spray, cuffs, a vest and my Glock, I'll wait outside.
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Old 07-01-2005, 18:49   #3
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Thanks for reply, I'll be more specific-the rescuers are in the immediate area of the threat (0-50+ft) due to faulty/or no accurate information. One scenario that comes to mind is rescuers inside a house helping our customer, then from out of a back bedroom (which had a closed door) comes a "roommate". Now the question is...does the "roommate" have honorable intentions? If he plans on bad intent, what actions are you and/or your partner trained/allowed to respond with? I'm searching for any training programs that focus on awareness and actions that occur when attack is imminent ("the fight is on!").

Stay safe,

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Old 07-01-2005, 19:02   #4
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First thoughts are where are the exits if for some reason I've fogotten. Nobody is getting between us and the doors. If I have to act, the best I've got at any given time on the ambulance is my folding pocket knife with a 3 1/4" blade. Will I use it? Hell yes if I feel my partner or are in trouble.

As far as training, I don't know of any specific training other than be aware of your surroundings. We have no specific guideline of what we are allowed to do other than get out and wait for PD.

If the fight is on, this is what I tell pts in the back. "You may fight and fight good, but I will win". I will keep picking it up a notch until I have the upper hand or I'll hold my own until I have reinforcements. I have a family to go home to. If I'm there trying to help a person or their family and they're hampering that care by fighting with me, etc., I could care less if that person receives care or not.
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Old 07-03-2005, 17:30   #5
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Out here in the country, I carry a 2oz can of OC spray. I've used it for dogs more than i can remember. I also carry a leash and a collar to tie up annoying dogs. As for people, we carry the 4' pike pole in on anything that smells fishy. (If anyone asks, we say prep for forcible entry). We have a few guys that have vests they will grab for known violent calls.....Ya knever know any more.
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Old 07-05-2005, 19:43   #6
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There is a book out, I believe it is called "When Violence Erupts" but not 100% sure. You can probally look at JEMS or some of the other trade magazines websites as that is where the ad was at. It is designed to give FD/EMS ideas of what to look for when approaching a scene and what to do/or not to do, if S hits the fan. Our T/O ordered it after we had a series of "more violent that normal" calls which was about the time of all the FD/EMS shootings throughout the US a few years ago. If you need further, email me direct as I saved some of the articles which showed an increase in violence towards FD/EMS.
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Old 07-14-2005, 20:13   #7
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Location: Taylorsville, KY
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My partner and I always used the phrase "We need to go get the stretcher" when there was anything dangerous spotted by either of us. It sounds like normal communication on the scene, so it doesn't raise suspicion with those who may mean you harm. Once at the truck, then we would explain what it was.

A good quick scene size up can give you a heads up. Look for dog food bowls, karate trophies etc... Keep a clear line to an exit. ALWAYS trust that little voice in your head.

Stay safe
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