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Old 08-08-2005, 09:42   #26
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<------ Chicks dig Aprilias and not BMWs. ;f



Of course there's the Acura RL with sometimes AWD depending on the road surface and the level of driving enthusiam. Its price is probably pretty close to the CTS-V. More oomphs and luxury than the TL.

And then the 2006 E90 BMW 330i rears its head.;G

I wouldn't buy an M3. The next generation M3 is probably just around the corner. Rumored of V-8 power...;P
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Old 08-08-2005, 10:19   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by fnfalman
<------ Chicks dig Aprilias and not BMWs. ;f



Of course there's the Acura RL with sometimes AWD depending on the road surface and the level of driving enthusiam. Its price is probably pretty close to the CTS-V. More oomphs and luxury than the TL.

And then the 2006 E90 BMW 330i rears its head.;G

I wouldn't buy an M3. The next generation M3 is probably just around the corner. Rumored of V-8 power...;P
I've got an appointment Thursday to test the Bimmer 330 and M3. If new M's get the same treatment as the 3-series, I think I'd be glad to take the current model. The new 3-series styling doesn't do a whole lot for me.

I like the RL. The amount of technology in that thing is amazing, but it only comes with the slushbox. Also, truth be told, I'd like to keep it under 40k. I've more or less ruled out the Caddy based on initial, insure and fuel costs. I've managed to rationalize the M3 by taking into account that BMW takes care of everything up to 50k miles, from oil changes to brake pads, and because it amazingly costs less to insure than my VW GTI. And it's an M3;f The $50-52k price tag will likely rule it out as well.
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Old 08-08-2005, 10:38   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by epsylum
With a name like that you wouldn't be biased would you? ;f
Or just informed enough, even you said you'd take a Z06, a CTS-V is a Z06 with a caddy badge, different body panels, and some extra seating room
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Old 08-08-2005, 11:30   #29
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A CTS-V is not a Z06 with the Caddy wreath. You're thinking of the XLR which shared the same chassis as the C6. The CTS is based on the Opel.
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Old 08-08-2005, 17:51   #30
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I think what he meant is that the CTS-V utilizes the same motor and transmission as the Z06. The XLR does borrow the chassis structure of the C6, but the motor and transmission are entirely different. The CTS is not based on an Opel, it does share its Sigma chassis with some Opels, but the chassis is a clean sheet design. The Catera was nothing but a rebadged Opel.
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Old 08-08-2005, 20:11   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by method
I think what he meant is that the CTS-V utilizes the same motor and transmission as the Z06. The XLR does borrow the chassis structure of the C6, but the motor and transmission are entirely different. The CTS is not based on an Opel, it does share its Sigma chassis with some Opels, but the chassis is a clean sheet design. The Catera was nothing but a rebadged Opel.
I don't care who makes it, I am a blue oval guy (if it HAS to be american). The Z06 just has it all, everything else GM makes that is even remotely close to it, is just a wannabe.

BTW I meant I want the 06 (500hp) Z06. But I want a Ford GT about 100 times more.

Anywho, I don't have enough cash for even an Aveo (however it's spelled), so I am just dreaming.
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Old 08-08-2005, 20:17   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by epsylum
I don't care who makes it, I am a blue oval guy (if it HAS to be american). The Z06 just has it all, everything else GM makes that is even remotely close to it, is just a wannabe.

BTW I meant I want the 06 (500hp) Z06. But I want a Ford GT about 100 times more.

Anywho, I don't have enough cash for even an Aveo (however it's spelled), so I am just dreaming.
a Ford GT over a Z06?!?! Ford Sucks! GM rules! and 9mm is for pansies! ;f ;N

j/k

That new Z is looking really good. Plus I hear it can be had with all the luxury goodies as well; leather heated seats, nav, HUD, etc. At half the price of the GT, for me a choice between the two would be a no brainer. Now, if somebody else was buying........
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Old 08-09-2005, 01:53   #33
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Ford sucks anyway and yes I did mean it shares the same engine and Tremec 6 spd manual as the current Z06, both also have IRS, hugemongous brakes and the same pricetag. Ford GT is ok I guess, but if I was going for "supercar" i'd simply get one of these (yes they are chevy powered, and stomp all over the GT :D

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Quote:
Originally posted by epsylum
I don't care who makes it, I am a blue oval guy (if it HAS to be american). The Z06 just has it all, everything else GM makes that is even remotely close to it, is just a wannabe.

BTW I meant I want the 06 (500hp) Z06. But I want a Ford GT about 100 times more.

Anywho, I don't have enough cash for even an Aveo (however it's spelled), so I am just dreaming.
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Old 08-09-2005, 07:47   #34
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Quote:
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Ford sucks anyway
A little uncalled for if you ask me. I never said GM sucks (even though I would rather own a beat up old 88 camry with over 200k miles than about 95% of GM's new vehicles, the camry will be more reliable).

The Ultima is sweet, but it is a kit car. I can find lots of other kit cars that are hella fast too. Some use ford engines.

I actually saw an ultima driving down the street once. I was behind it. It pulled out of Indianapolis Raceway Park when I left my house. They had some big SCCA thing that going on and Car and Driver was there.
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Old 08-10-2005, 15:44   #35
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Update:
Just got done test driving the G35. My initial thoughts: ehhh. It honestly doesn't feel like it has just short of 300hp. Now, it doesn't feel slow either, but it didn't come across as the über-sports sedan some make it out to be. Then again, I really didn't lay into it. The shifter was very short throw, but very notchy and high effort. Definitely not as slick as the Acura or Audi. I did like the RWD, and even through the basic 4-turn test drive it felt like it could attack the twisties better than the other two.
The interior was tasteful and the fit and finish was on par with the Audi, but not the Acura. I did like the way the nav system hides when not in use, but the controls were only slightly better than the A4, which isn't saying much. Further, the intelligent key isn't available on the 6-spd, and no bluetooth. As far as nifty tech features go, the Infinity is behind the competition.
All in all, I'd have to say the G35 is nearly out of the running, unless I could get a very good deal. The salesman mentioned, without my even asking, that he could likely let it go for a touch above invoice. They had quite a few on the lot and the '06's will be here mid-Sep, so my impression is that they're pretty eager to unload them.

Tomorrow, I test the Bimmer 3-series and M3.
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Old 08-10-2005, 15:59   #36
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$.02 on 6 speed with paddle shifter:

I have one in my BMW. Takes getting used to and the BMW version works "backwards" from the way you expect. That said, I'd never go back to a manual. The machine shifts quicker than I can even with heel-toe coordination. Plus, it is so much nicer is in long freeway slogs I must endure.

-NL
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Old 08-10-2005, 22:01   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by c5367
Tomorrow, I test the Bimmer 3-series and M3.
My uncle streched financially to get his M3 (got it new in 95). He still loves that car. I rode in it and thought it was really freakin sweet.

But he is a life long BMW fan (has had and still has numerous Beemer bikes and used to have a 2002 until he sold it to my other uncle).
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Old 08-11-2005, 09:19   #38
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I'd take an E36 M3 (especially a 95..) over an E46 any day of the week and twice on Sundays. IMHO, the E46 M3 has been skewed too much towards luxury and not enough sport. I'm not saying its slow or handles poorly, quite the opposite, but to me it just doesn't 'feel' as sporty. I also dont like SMG, its way too much like Gran Tourismo for me to get into...


That being said, the E46 M3 is probably the most sporting of the options in this thread.
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Old 08-11-2005, 09:38   #39
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Quote:
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I'd take an E36 M3 (especially a 95..) over an E46 any day of the week and twice on Sundays. IMHO, the E46 M3 has been skewed too much towards luxury and not enough sport. I'm not saying its slow or handles poorly, quite the opposite, but to me it just doesn't 'feel' as sporty. I also dont like SMG, its way too much like Gran Tourismo for me to get into...


That being said, the E46 M3 is probably the most sporting of the options in this thread.
yeah it is pretty sporty on the inside. I does have a few cool things, but no luxury type things like heated seats and the like.

It has very stiff suspension and seems to handle VERY well. I just wish he would get a supercharger kit. That is the only drawback for me with that car (the E36 m3's)is they need a tad more power.
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Old 08-11-2005, 20:18   #40
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The G35 you test drove is fast. You just didn't push it enough. Take it out again and see if you can take it for an afternoon. And jump on it.

Hopefully over labor day I will get to drive a freind of mine's and I will give you more feedback(ridden with him a few times). I can say it is one of the VERY few cars that has scared me as a passenger.
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Old 08-11-2005, 20:37   #41
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Just got back from the BMW dealership where I tested the 05 330 Coupe and an '02 M3.
First was the 330: The interior was very utilitarian, almost spartan, but it didn't really lack anything. The upholstery was cloth, as this model had the performance package. This actually turns out to be a good thing, as I found out in the test drive.
The dealer was right next door to the dealers I had tested the Audi and Acura at, so I was expecting the same test drive route. I was surprised when the dealer directed me to some twisty little back road areas and fully encouraged me to attack the turns. I suspect this is because yes, the Bimmer is every bit the drivers' car it is made out to be. The car is really an apex strafer, and the dealer obviously was intent on putting its best foot forward. I've never heard, nor could I imagine hearing a dealer say "more gas, gas, gas!" while going through a tight curve until today. The cloth held me in the seat much better than leather. All in all, this car was the best feeling of what I had tested thusfar.
That didn't last long because the M3 came next. To make what would end up as a long post full of every superlative adjective I can imagine, it would be more to the point to say this car is EVERYTHING the car rags say it is, and then some. Now, I'm partial the low burble of pushrod V-8s, but the snarl this machine had was music. Pure music. I do think the very nice audio system would rarely get used. I was able to take it on the same route as the 330, where it did everything the 330 did, but better and faster. Driving that thing destroyed any notion of wanting a "practical" car. MPG numbers meant nothing. The rear shelf....um, I mean back seat which would have been a turn-off in the the others was suddenly completely irrelevant. Getting back into to my GTI was a sad disappointment. The brakes which I always thought were way more than adequate felt soft and weak. And the acceleration? Good grief it is severely wanting.
The only sore spot.....I'd be lucky to walk with it for the not-so-paltry sum of 51,000 plus tax, and that is getting a break from the 54K sticker.
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Old 08-11-2005, 22:50   #42
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I'm glad you had fun, dealer days are always great.

For the price of a new M3, keep in mind you can probably get a CPO e39 M5, just food for thought
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Old 08-12-2005, 08:42   #43
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The "cloth" isn't cloth but it's called Alcantara - a synthetic suade. Some of the racing motorcycles are using them for seats now, but for a different reason. With regular clothings on, the suade-like material holds you in place. But when you wear leathers, it's slippin' & slidin', baby! And that's what you need in order to hang off the bike on one side and slide to the other side for the next corner.

PS I personally wouldn't buy the 05 330i, Performance Package and whatnot. I'd spend the extra $600 and get the much more potent 06 330i.
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Old 08-12-2005, 09:10   #44
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They say the 06's are a big improvement performance wise, but the new styling is a huge turnoff. I suppose the upside would be that the exact configuration I'd like would be more readily available. At the moment, the particular 330 I drove isn't on the short list, as it doesn't have the tech goodies I'd like. While it was a great handling car, the lack of features at its price point was a deal breaker. They do have a 05 330 convertible with everything but nav that may fit the bill, but it ends up only 2-3k short of the M3. It does have the M-wannabe package with the 235hp engine, upgraded suspension and M-looking aero pieces. The benefit would be the addition of the drop-top,(chicks dig drop-tops!) much better MPG, slightly cheaper insurance, and much less potential for losing my license
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Old 08-14-2005, 19:20   #45
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If were my choice, I would go with the CTS V-same motor and tranny as the Z06(LS6& T56). A guy I know has his brand new cts v making 400 at the rear wheels right now. Exhaust, small cam, intake and throttle body. still very much driveable, and very much a sleeper car that still gets good gas milage.
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Old 08-14-2005, 21:28   #46
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define "good"....
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Old 08-14-2005, 22:42   #47
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Depends on how hard you drive it of course, but the LS6 delivers upwards of 28 mpg in the 'Vette on the highway. Hard city driving will net 15 or less. The heavier and less aerodynamic CTS-V would probably be good for 25 mpg on an extended highway cruise. The LS1/2/6's really are top notch motors, being compact, light, powerful, efficient, and reliable. The LS7 will go down in history as one of the finest factory motors ever.

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Old 08-14-2005, 22:46   #48
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Comparing apples to apples:

EPA MPG
Caddy CTS-V 15/23
BMW M3 (manual) 16/24

All that extra power comes at the expense of a whopping 1 MPG.

But the real cost difference: 6 months insurance
CTS-V @$1900
M3 @$875

I couldn't even begin to guess why.
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Old 08-15-2005, 09:51   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by c5367
Comparing apples to apples:

EPA MPG
Caddy CTS-V 15/23
BMW M3 (manual) 16/24

All that extra power comes at the expense of a whopping 1 MPG.

But the real cost difference: 6 months insurance
CTS-V @$1900
M3 @$875

I couldn't even begin to guess why.
First of all, horsepower doesn't tell the whole story. The M3 outaccelerates and outcorners the CTS-V. Don't get me wrong, the CTS-V is a heck of a car, but there's a reason why the M3 gets top notch review. There isn't a sport sedan that can touch it. Well, the M5, but then that's because the M5 is a BMW.

As far as why the cost difference in insurance, I don't really know. Maybe because the M3 has been around longer and has better reliability records? I'm just guessing as to why the insurance is cheaper.
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Old 08-15-2005, 10:42   #50
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My partner has a CTS-V. I have a 5 series BMW. Even though on paper the Caddy should be faster, on real streets the Beemer smokes it. (Well, that's not fair. It's a bit faster)

The main reason, I think, is in the mysterious area of "feel". The Germans just seem to be better at giving you a car that lets you know exactly what is going on. Also, given that you really can't drive fast that often anyway, I'm not sure performace should be the main issue.

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