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Old 11-20-2005, 21:56   #1
MELBU
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Info On M16's

Bros share ko lang ulit itong infos regarding M16's mula
sa lumang thread ni mao, kasi medyo dumadami ulit yung mga pm's
na recieve ko lately about M16's.


Colt M4's and New Knights Armament Assault Rifle Price Range:
P250,000.00 up to P350,000.00

Colt M4's and New Knights Armament Assault Rifle Availablity:
1.As of October 2005 VERY RARE, you gotta have bigtime connections
to get these units.
2.Luck. If your lucky na may mag-alok ulit na for sale na ganyan.

Cost of assembling your rifle from scratch:
P80,000.00 up to P120,000.00

Cost of buying a whole rifle:
Manila price - P35,000.00 to P55,000.00 depending on condition of gun.
Provincial price - For as low as P10 to 20,000.00 or palit alak lang hehe

Licensing of Assault weapons:
During Amnesty only.
There are two (2) Gun Amnesties in one presidential term in the Phils. Or if the government is doing a fund raising (daw).
Gun Amnesty is the only time civilians in the philippines can legally
own an assault rifle.

Tip on Colt Ar-15's and M16's:
These guns are not brand new.
These guns have a shelf life of more than 30 years, most of them are Vietnam era pa.
It's very very rare to find mint condition guns like these, unless
it was owned by an officer who did not join the war.
Recievers on most of these guns are loose because of age.
If you see an Ar-15 or M16 that is in very mint condition, there is
a big possibility that the gun is Elisco with the markings erased
and replaced with Colt or Assembled with a blank lower reciever
imported from the US.

Tip on Elisco Rifles:
Elisco is Colt.
The philippines is one of the 5 countries licensed by Colt to manufacture M16's.
Elisco is re-inforced.
Elisco is Newer than vietnam colts, and there are big chances you can still get brand new condition and still in box units.


M16 receivers are made from aircraft aluminum and the markings can
be easily erased and replaced.

PTC's are for handguns only.
Transport Permit are for rifles (house to range only, with a duration
of usually 1 to 2 weeks only)
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Last edited by MELBU; 11-23-2005 at 05:48..
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Old 11-21-2005, 16:54   #2
horge
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I'd always wondered about those prices here

Quote:
Tip on Elisco Rifles:
Elisco is Colt.
The philippines is one of the 5 countries licensed by Colt to manufacture M16's.
Elisco is re-inforced.
Elisco is Brand new.
MELBU, I thought Elisco Tool & Mfg was unable to renew its license from Colt back in 1982.
Wasn't this the reason why they --with Marcos' help, bought ArmaLite
(formerly of Fairchild), to venture the local manufacture of AR-180's for the AFP?

*Then EDSA '86 happened, the project lost its patron, and a cash-strapped Elisco
sold ArmaLite to American buyers ---the present day ArmaLite Inc. of Geneseo, IL.


Pardon my ignorance, but since when has Elisco been manufacturing Colt's (AR) products
under license again? Curious lang, and I want to update what I know.
Tnx

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Last edited by horge; 11-21-2005 at 17:01..
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Old 11-21-2005, 20:09   #3
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thanks for the summary. i was here about 3 months ago and saw some nice pics of pinoy owned black rifles, are they still here?
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Old 11-21-2005, 21:00   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by horge

I'd always wondered about those prices here



MELBU, I thought Elisco Tool & Mfg was unable to renew its license from Colt back in 1982.
Wasn't this the reason why they --with Marcos' help, bought ArmaLite
(formerly of Fairchild), to venture the local manufacture of AR-180's for the AFP?

*Then EDSA '86 happened, the project lost its patron, and a cash-strapped Elisco
sold ArmaLite to American buyers ---the present day ArmaLite Inc. of Geneseo, IL.


Pardon my ignorance, but since when has Elisco been manufacturing Colt's (AR) products
under license again? Curious lang, and I want to update what I know.
Tnx

I think that the AFP was preparing to introduce the Armalite AR180 to their inventory by way of Elisco assembling them locally when EDSA I happened. The project did not push through after Marcos was exiled.
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Old 11-22-2005, 01:48   #5
horge
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Quote:
Originally posted by isuzu
I think that the AFP was preparing to introduce the Armalite AR180 to their inventory by way of Elisco assembling them locally when EDSA I happened. The project did not push through after Marcos was exiled.
Precisely, isuzu
TMK, their reason to go to the AR-180 was Colt's Mfg.'s refusal
to renew Elisco Tool's M16 manufacturing license.

However, that was in the mid-1980's. Fast forward to today:
Colt's patent rights on the original design have since run out.
This is why in the US, everyone and his dog is making/selling an M16,
albeit semiauto (in cognizance of restrictions on automatics).

I would not be surprised if Elisco Tool WAS making a version of the M16 today,
but MELBU's post implies that brand-new Elisco M16's are available,
and made under license from Colt's Mfg. ---something that
would surprise (and yes, excite) me.

Colt's does still hold the patent on the M4 derivative, so I was
wondering if THAT was being referred to via MELBU's
Quote:

Elisco is Colt.
The philippines is one of the 5 countries licensed by Colt to manufacture M16's.
Elisco is re-inforced.
Elisco is Brand new.
Hopefully MELBU can clear this up.


horge
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Old 11-22-2005, 23:01   #6
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oh hi there horge, i learned that from a friend of mine that elisco
plant in phils manufactures m16, as for the exact technical details
that you really wanted to be clear about, il get back to you as soon as i make another research, para masagot kita ng tama.
Who knows i may be wrong and you maybe right.

As for my post im just showing here the philippine elisco m16 is really an
improved and better version of the m16 than the old vietnam era
m16's with colt markings.

I may be wrong or you maybe right horge.

melbu
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Last edited by MELBU; 11-23-2005 at 00:01..
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Old 11-22-2005, 23:40   #7
MELBU
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Re: Info On M16's

Quote:
Originally posted by MELBU


Tip on Elisco Rifles:
Elisco is Colt.
The philippines is one of the 5 countries licensed by Colt to manufacture M16's.
Elisco is re-inforced.
Elisco is Brand new.

Ok i think i posted this part wrong, a friend of mine maybe fed me with the wrong informations about the dates.

Tip on Elisco Rifles:

Elisco is Colt. (licensed by colt)

The philippines is one of the 5 countries licensed by Colt to manufacture M16's. (true, but i got the wrong information about the
manufacturing or contracts ended na pala in the 80's)
Heres one from singapore under CIS
Band of Glockers

Elisco is re-inforced. (yes, improved design)

Elisco is Brand new. (i guess im wrong here, since ended na ang
manufacturing contracts?? But i occasionally see brand new units
still in box. Siguro what im trying to show here na
philippine elisco is better, newer than the 40+ year old vietnam
era m16's to the people who are asking me about the original colt
markings or can the markings be replaced things.)

I didnt know the manufacturing contracts ended in the 80's, let me
correct it bros, my apologies.

Horge since you seem to know a lot about the infos on m16's,
i-correct mo na lang ako, and share mo na lang agad yung nalalaman
mo bro.

Thanks
MELBU
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Last edited by MELBU; 11-22-2005 at 23:59..
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Old 11-22-2005, 23:48   #8
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MELBU,

Me? I don't know much about M16's, haha....
That's why I turn to folks like you!
I just got excited over the thought that Elisco Tool
was making M4 or had resumed licensed M16 components again,
and was hoping for confirmation.



Cheers,
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Old 02-22-2006, 00:48   #9
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Hi guys,

Will very soon have a black rifle.

Where in metro manila can i buy ammo and mags? Whats the price range?

Maraming salamat,

Mao.
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:15   #10
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Quote:
Provincial price - For as low as P10 to 20,000.00 or palit alak lang hehe
Mahal na rin sa province. Supply and demand na rin. Ammo is also expensive. Armscor P22 na yata.

Last edited by akula; 02-23-2006 at 02:02..
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:21   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by maomanila
Where in metro manila can i buy ammo and mags? Whats the price range?
Brand new? Try Twin Pines / Tools Trading / Casa Armas.

The have their own brand 'Competitive' mags at P1T. I think these are made in South Korea. Teflon yata ang finish. Some are tight fit on the magwell so ask them if you can test the mag at home at pweding palitan kun medyo tight.

They were also selling USGI-specs OKAY mags. Naka original sealed plastic wrapper, at my US contractor's code. Dry Moly finish. P1,5T. Kung mey discount card ka sa kanila, mey less 10%.

Edited to add:
Watch out for Okay 'copy'. I think this was priced at P1,2T. This has different rough finish, not the original Dry Moly lube finish

Last edited by akula; 02-22-2006 at 06:03..
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Old 02-22-2006, 04:14   #12
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Hi akula,

Magkano going rate ng Colt 30rounder magazine ngayon?

Thanks.
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Old 02-22-2006, 05:59   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by S I L V E R
Hi akula, Magkano going rate ng Colt 30rounder magazine ngayon?
Thanks.
Hi Silver,

A.- I just visited the Walther forum and missed my P99...

I have not seen a brand-new Colt 30-rounders locally. Yung Colt mags were actually subcontracted. I believe the latest subcontractors were actually OKAY. Frankly speaking, you'll just be buying the name. I have only one Colt mag, and the logo is really nice; otherwise USGI-- OKAY, Center, Adventureline and Parsons are quite ok. Depending on finish, most used USGI mags goes for P700-800. Before Sept2005 (expiration of the US Assault-Weapon Ban law), our prices were almost at par with the US. But currently, A15/M16 mags in the states cost as low as $10 brandnew.

FAQ for M16 magazines is now a bit dated but still has useful info. OKay has already changed its name to NHMTG, while Labelle is now D&H. Teflon is the current 'hyped' finish for civilian market. A new mag manufacturer CProducts makes mags for Brownell and reportedly has got a substantial USArmy contract. They are also launching their new stainless steel mags.

- j.
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Old 02-22-2006, 16:53   #14
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This is one situation where prices in the PI are better on a gun than in the USA!

A nice quality M16A1 is about US $15,000 right now, plus a $200 tax on the transfer. ;g Registered sears that you can move from gun to gun are probably more!
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Old 02-22-2006, 16:57   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by akula

FAQ for M16 magazines is now a bit dated but still has useful info. OKay has already changed its name to NHMTG, while Labelle is now D&H. Teflon is the current 'hyped' finish for civilian market. A new mag manufacturer CProducts makes mags for Brownell and reportedly has got a substantial USArmy contract. They are also launching their new stainless steel mags.

The new magazines with the teflon finish are GREAT STUFF. The finish is significantly more durable, last a lot longer, and is more lubricative than the standard mil-spec moly-powder coat. I am in the process of replacing my old magazines (had to buy them used during our "ban") with them and I'm very pleased.

All of mine were made by D&H (formerly Labelle).

If you're going to buy new mags and you can get them, the teflon finish is definitely worth the extra buck or two over the moly-powder coat.
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Old 02-22-2006, 17:26   #16
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Rhino!!!
Long time no see







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Old 02-22-2006, 18:34   #17
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The GM Hydramatic M16 is just an M16 made by GM's Hydramatic Division. Nothing special about it, except for its rarity.

The difference between Colt and Elisco, IMHO is that Colt has a chrome-lined barrel, while Elisco's barrel isn't chromed. Both chambers are chromed, though (to prevent chamber erosion). Later production Elisco sights were kinda weird. The rear apertures were more like the A2's, but with an A1 adjustment system. Israel still uses the A1 sight system. According to them, this sight system is more rugged than the A2's.

Other than that, they're the same. You'll just have to be diligent in cleaning non-chromed barrels and they have a shorter life than chromed barrels. Sniper versions of M16s use either stainless or non-chromed barrel. It's been said that plating the barrel (chrome lining) somewhat affects accuracy.

One thing you also have to watch out is using an AR (semi-automatic) firing pin in an M16. The AR's firing pin collar is smaller than that of the M16's.
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Old 02-22-2006, 19:36   #18
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I think our older (PI) Colts were not chromelined [C MP C] and only the chambers were chromed, similar to Elisco [P MP C]. I've seen a few of them, and they were mostly converted to 'baby'. The later ones were fully lined [C MP CHROMEBORE].

I've seen an instance where a fellow competitor 'deliberately' adjusted the A2 sight of another.

Quote:
Originally posted by isuzu
One thing you also have to watch out is using an AR (semi-automatic) firing pin in an M16. The AR's firing pin collar is smaller than that of the M16's.
Thanks for this info, Isuzu. I never realized they were different.

- j.

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Old 02-22-2006, 20:48   #19
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You're right, Akula. The early Colt M16's chambers and barrels were never chromed at all. Only when chamber erosion became a problem especially with frequent full automatic fire, was the chamber chromed. Then, came the problem of barrels that wore out faster than expected. Hence, the chroming of the barrel (kinda stupid. They should have chromed-lined the barrel when they decided to chrome-line the chamber).

I still like the A1 sight system. The A2 rear sight is easy to mess up than the A1's. The A1 front sight is the needle type, while the A2's is square post. I think the A1 rear sight is more rugged than the A2's.

Surfed through the the Brownell's website, and found lots of stuff for the M16 such as barrel erosion gauge, front sight and rear sight adjustment tools, the rubber wedge you place on the lower receiver to minimize upper and lower receiver play, barrel wrenches, etc.
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Old 02-22-2006, 23:20   #20
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ssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh.... konting preno..
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