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Old 11-25-2005, 16:12   #1
thejackbull45
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Pontiac Torrent: Made in China

Went car shopping today and found out that the Pontiac Torrents engine is made in China! I couldnt believe it. They lay off 30K people but build their engines in China. Makes me ;0
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Old 11-27-2005, 08:48   #2
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Re: Pontiac Torrent: Made in China

Quote:
Originally posted by thejackbull45
Went car shopping today and found out that the Pontiac Torrents engine is made in China! I couldnt believe it. They lay off 30K people but build their engines in China. Makes me ;0
Its equivalent Chevy Equinox's engine is also made in China. Third twin of Torrent nad Equinox, Saturn Vue, is using Honda engine instead chinese powerplant.
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Old 11-29-2005, 03:36   #3
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Most of the UAW people I know make me sick.
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Old 11-29-2005, 06:28   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by dfbarnes
Most of the UAW people I know make me sick.
?
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Old 11-29-2005, 06:44   #5
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If you buy a GM car, $1600 goes to pay for employee benefits.

The 30,000 people losing their jobs are losing them becuase the unions have steadfastly refused to make any meaningful concessions for decades and have effectively priced themselves out of the market- similar to the fates that the airlines faced.

You can not pay people $40 an hour or more for life to do largely automated, unskilled labor and expect to remain competitive.

I believe unions were instrumental in gaining better working conditions, better wages, and better benefits in the past. Now their jutted-chin denial of economic fact is costing their members' jobs, their companies' fiscal stability, and shareholders' value.

My 2¢.

-p.
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Old 11-29-2005, 07:01   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhuzzyGnu
If you buy a GM car, $1600 goes to pay for employee benefits.

The 30,000 people losing their jobs are losing them becuase the unions have steadfastly refused to make any meaningful concessions for decades and have effectively priced themselves out of the market- similar to the fates that the airlines faced.

You can not pay people $40 an hour or more for life to do largely automated, unskilled labor and expect to remain competitive.

I believe unions were instrumental in gaining better working conditions, better wages, and better benefits in the past. Now their jutted-chin denial of economic fact is costing their members' jobs, their companies' fiscal stability, and shareholders' value.

My 2¢.

-p.
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I've yet to find an anti-union post I didn't like.
They had their place, they served their purpose, time to move on.
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Old 11-29-2005, 07:16   #7
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Torrent

LCR
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Old 11-29-2005, 07:30   #8
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Re: Re: Pontiac Torrent: Made in China

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Originally posted by kawalerzysta
...Saturn Vue, is using Honda engine instead chinese powerplant.
I believe GM worked out a trade with Honda for those engines (GM diesels for the Honda 6 cylinder engines for the Vue).
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Old 11-29-2005, 08:10   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhuzzyGnu
If you buy a GM car, $1600 goes to pay for employee benefits.

The 30,000 people losing their jobs are losing them becuase the unions have steadfastly refused to make any meaningful concessions for decades and have effectively priced themselves out of the market- similar to the fates that the airlines faced.

You can not pay people $40 an hour or more for life to do largely automated, unskilled labor and expect to remain competitive.

I believe unions were instrumental in gaining better working conditions, better wages, and better benefits in the past. Now their jutted-chin denial of economic fact is costing their members' jobs, their companies' fiscal stability, and shareholders' value.

My 2¢.

-p.
I agree but do you think buying from China is a solution?
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Old 11-29-2005, 16:22   #10
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I do have to wonder if it would have been better to come up with something from somewhere different... I thought GM was working with Daewoo? Is that the Aveo?
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Old 11-29-2005, 16:41   #11
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Buy a real car, buy a Toyota.

;f

The Japanese car companies will soon be employing more Americans than the American car companies.
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Old 11-29-2005, 20:58   #12
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Is buying a Toyota made in Kentucky more patriotic? How about a Honda made in Ohio? Or a Dodge truck made in Mexico?

The lines of "country of origin" are blurred. Buy whatever damn car or truck floats your boat.

-p.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:06   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhuzzyGnu
Is buying a Toyota made in Kentucky more patriotic? How about a Honda made in Ohio? Or a Dodge truck made in Mexico?

The lines of "country of origin" are blurred. Buy whatever damn car or truck floats your boat.

-p.

China is a far different animal than Mexico.


And yes I would buy Toyota over GM. As far as I have seen the Toyotas are American/Japanese made.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:08   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhuzzyGnu

You can not pay people $40 an hour or more for life to do largely automated, unskilled labor and expect to remain competitive.

American car makers are not competitive because they make crap compared to Toyota/Honda.

The greed in Detroit starts at the top IMHO.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:42   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by thejackbull45
American car makers are not competitive because they make crap compared to Toyota/Honda.

The greed in Detroit starts at the top IMHO.
Toyota and Honda make engineering works of art- no doubt. And I will agree that many American "price-point" cars are not as good- not crap, but not as refi

Crap was an 88 Pontiac 6000. An '82 Cutlass. A '78 Mustang. the American car companies are lightyears ahead of where they were.

Anyway, like I said, buy whatever damn car floats your boat. A friend owns and will only own for now until the end of time Toyota MR2s. An eco-weenie friend drives a Prius. My neighbors drive two Pontiac Grand Prix because he used to be a manager at a dealership or something. My granny likes Crown Vics and Grand Marquis because they are what she likes. My mom drives a Lexus LX470 because, of all things, it kneels 3" when you push a button and is easy on her replaced knee. My in-laws only drive Chevy Silverado pickups because of their work and because they load up and go to Mexico all the time and because "Ford sucks". My wife drives a Suburban because of the two kids. I drive a 20 year old van because I sold my motorcycle because my wife has a newer Suburban because of the two kids.

Personally, if I was gonnna by a new vehicle it would be a diesel flatbed Ford or Dodge truck. I wouldn't buy anything the aforementioned people bought. But that's me.


And the greed always starts at the top in any corporation because that is where greed is fed.

-p.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:54   #16
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Its a shame no one cares about this, a real shame.
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:05   #17
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Its a shame no one cares about this, a real shame.
Your right, I could care less
Buy what to hell makes you happy
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:21   #18
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Your right, I could care less
Buy what to hell makes you happy

Yeah its all about you.


Maybe you will care when this country no longer exists.
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:26   #19
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Yeah its all about you.
When I spend my hard earned money, I don't care one iota about you;Q
My money is not yours ;P
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:34   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Markcuda
When I spend my hard earned money, I don't care one iota about you;Q
My money is not yours ;P

Since all you care about is money, how much do you think your taxes will go up due to layoffs, plant closures, business closings etc etc.
Oh yeah thats right you cant think that far ahead.


Hard earned money huh, you sound like a blue collar worker. LOL. Typical narrow minded thinking.


Like I said, its all about you. Sorry to hear you dont care about your country. If everyone thought like you, we'd have no military, no public service nothing.

Your mamma failed in raising you.
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:38   #21
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If you only knew how much I am laughing at you ;z
Your killin' me here
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Old 11-30-2005, 14:42   #22
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I'm starting to laugh too.

So you seriously think the country is going to fall apart because so many union sheep lost their jobs?

Where was your computer made? Your TV? Any other damn thing in your house? Where was your gun made?

We live in a global economy. Even auto makers have this figured out. You couldn't, if you tried, find a "U.S." vehicle made of entirely U.S.-made components.

The people who need to catch up with the global economy, union asses, already have, and just don't realize it. While they put up "No foreign auto parking" signs, more than half the stuff they consume is made overseas.

The UAW, among all the other unions, feed them the lie that there still exists a true "U.S.-made" option. That option is no longer here. If it were, the economy would fall apart. Here's why:

You want a cheap Pontiac that will compete with the economy foreign cars, made entirely in the U.S.? Made entirely in the U.S., the price just doubled, because of how much more GM would have to pay union workers in the U.S. to build it. Because the UAW has their sheep convinced that their simple labor is somehow better than the simple labor of non-union workers, or God-forbid, foreign workers.

Unions are out-dated, out-moded, worthless for anything except getting a liberal vote from their members. It's ALMOST funny to listen to my grandpa and grandma after they come back from their union hall meetings. UAW buys the retirees trips to Branson, monthly dinners, etceteras, all the while presenting them with speeches about how "George Bush is trying to take away your pension." No joke, I've seen the propaganda. These old people, who don't know better, then go out and vote nothing but Democrat, BECAUSE THE UNIONS SAYS SO, even though the liberal agenda goes against every value they were brought up with.

So as far as the whole, "buy American," arguments goes, there is no way to "buy American."

Buy the best car you can buy, and if that means foreign, that means foreign.

And the next union worker who's been laid off, and wants to stand next to his giant brand-new Ford diesel truck, and ***** about how he can no longer make payments on his truck and 200K house because Bush laid him off, can get a reality check. All the fat bastard can do is push a button, you can't make 27.00 and hour doing that. Maybe you should get a smaller house, and a less-expensive truck, like everybody else who actually has to work for a living.
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Old 11-30-2005, 14:50   #23
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Ditto, sir
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Old 11-30-2005, 17:38   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by thejackbull45
Since all you care about is money, how much do you think your taxes will go up due to layoffs, plant closures, business closings etc etc.
Oh yeah thats right you cant think that far ahead.
If the country was ran correctly, no our tazes wouldn't go up. I don't belive in welfare of any sort, coporate or personal.

If GM goes under, so be it. They dug thier own grave.

The japanese auto manufacturers are winning now becasue they are better buisness people than the big 3. The big choice that is helping them right now is saying no to unions.

My Dad works as a vice-president at a shop where the fabrication guys are union employees. The management, obviously, is not. My brother also worked there for a bit under the union. The union does a great job of keeping the most useless employees and paying them stupid amounts of money. It's rediculously hard to fire the imcompetent and to find and hire the competent. The union loves to pat themselves on the back and take pride in ripping the employer off.

The American car companies cannot keep the same level of quality for the same price because thier cars are more expensive to produce. Corners have to be cut to make them competitively priced. At first they could just cut a few here and there. Now they have to buy whole enignes from other countries or move whole operations to other countries just to stay competitive.

The unions are killing the US auto industry just as the did with the airline industry.

BTW I have a friends who worked for Ford and another that was an airline mechanic before the bottom fell out of both industries. They both bragged about how they got paid to do almost nothing.

The Ford guy was paid over $18 an hour to sweep the floor and there was no limit to the amount of overtime he could work. He said he was reading 1 novel a day becasue he had so much down time, but yet still worked 100 hours a week (no joke, he showed me his pay stub).

The airline guy joked about how the people there would hide and go to sleep on the job. It was so bad people were bringing thier own pillows and alarm clocks in. He said he made over $50k a year.

Unions need to go.
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Old 11-30-2005, 18:33   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by epsylum
If the country was ran correctly, no our tazes wouldn't go up. I don't belive in welfare of any sort, coporate or personal.

But it isnt run that way.

If GM goes under, so be it. They dug thier own grave.

I agree.

The japanese auto manufacturers are winning now becasue they are better buisness people than the big 3. The big choice that is helping them right now is saying no to unions.

My Dad works as a vice-president at a shop where the fabrication guys are union employees. The management, obviously, is not. My brother also worked there for a bit under the union. The union does a great job of keeping the most useless employees and paying them stupid amounts of money. It's rediculously hard to fire the imcompetent and to find and hire the competent. The union loves to pat themselves on the back and take pride in ripping the employer off.

My comments were not pro union but pro US

The American car companies cannot keep the same level of quality for the same price because thier cars are more expensive to produce. Corners have to be cut to make them competitively priced. At first they could just cut a few here and there. Now they have to buy whole enignes from other countries or move whole operations to other countries just to stay competitive.

I dont think they spend the $$ on engineering.

The unions are killing the US auto industry just as the did with the airline industry.

And the school systems.

BTW I have a friends who worked for Ford and another that was an airline mechanic before the bottom fell out of both industries. They both bragged about how they got paid to do almost nothing.

The Ford guy was paid over $18 an hour to sweep the floor and there was no limit to the amount of overtime he could work. He said he was reading 1 novel a day becasue he had so much down time, but yet still worked 100 hours a week (no joke, he showed me his pay stub).

The airline guy joked about how the people there would hide and go to sleep on the job. It was so bad people were bringing thier own pillows and alarm clocks in. He said he made over $50k a year.

Unions need to go. [/B]
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