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Old 01-17-2006, 20:50   #1
10 Ring Tao
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I'm PISSED! Should I be? (They wouldn't give me back my gun.)

My AK pistol was finally done, and of course, I had to register it. I take it in and right away I knew there were going to be problems.

First, at west bloomfield PD, they use cadets to man the front desk. The two cadets opened the box containing the AK pistol, and immediately started turning it over and looking for the serial number. They were confused because there was the serial on the receiver, and then some numbers on the front sight block for parts matching.

Second, the ewbanks receiver that was used for the build wasn't in their database, and the cadet was too inexperienced to put 9999 for other into the make or manufacturer field.

So what do they do? They go get Lt. Chapin to take a look at it and try to get this thing registered after a ridiculous hour and a half of sitting and waiting.

Heres where it gets interesting.

After some more waiting while they look at it in the back room, he calls me up to the front desk and says,
Quote:
"I'm not qualified to make a call on this gun. It looks like a rifle to me, even chambered in a rifle caliber. You're trying to say this is a pistol. This is too many inconsistencies for me to allow you take this home before our firearms expert takes a look at it. I feel like it needs to stay here until we solve this. These days I'm sure you understand, we have to be on the safe side."
Aren't they fond of saying to we civilians, that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Shouldn't that apply to them as well? Ignorance of the law is no excuse for taking my lawful property without cause.

I even offered to get Ken on the phone, the guy who built it, to explain to Mr. Lt Chapin just how wrong he was.

At this point I was blown away by the absolute ignorance, but politely tried to explain how this was built using a virgin receiver as a pistol, despite using a rifle caliber. When rebuffed again, I finally said I'd like my gun back and that I'll come back in the next chance I get.

He refused to give me the gun back.

No effort was made to catalog or guarantee the return of my lawful property. They didn't take my name, or phone number. I had to ask for a receipt as they were getting up to leave the room, and the sorry excuse for a receipt is attached below: A hand written paragraph, with the 'other' parts matching number on it no less!

Michigan Glockers

I have lots of ideas, but in your opinions, what should I do?
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Last edited by 10 Ring Tao; 01-26-2010 at 20:39..
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Old 01-17-2006, 20:52   #2
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I would be phoning the state attorny general or a local lawyer...
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Old 01-17-2006, 20:55   #3
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Hauptmann6 is right, call the office of Mike Cox ASAP and give Jim Simmons a call, both should be able to help.
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Old 01-17-2006, 20:56   #4
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Do you have Jim Simmons phone number?
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Old 01-17-2006, 20:59   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by gsbell
Do you have Jim Simmons phone number?
Just PM'd it to him.

I'd offer to show up as part of an unruly mob, but something tells me that won't help.
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Old 01-17-2006, 21:17   #6
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What a joke, these PD's are really starting to tick me off.
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Old 01-17-2006, 21:25   #7
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I'm going in tomorrow morning an hour after they open, and an hour after the expert guy is supposed to be in. If they haven't come to their senses and registered it, and have it and a green card waiting for me, I'll immediately put a call in to Jim.

Anyone else I should call, or anything else I should do if:

A- They make it right. Is there any kind of hell I can raise for my property being taken contrary to the law, and without a warrant? Granted it was only one night, but what this amounts to, is that some cop didn't like the way it looked, and decided they were going to hang on to it, "Just to be safe". That can't be kosher, and if it isn't, I want them to know it and experience any kind of consequences that can be applied.

B- They continue to be ignorant of the law. Jim right away of course, but anyone else I need to get in touch with to bring some serious immediate heat down on them?
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Old 01-17-2006, 21:58   #8
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You are experiencing the difference between power and authority.

If you show up tomorrow and things aren't going well suggest they call the BATF if they don't understand what a f'ing pistol is. They must think you have a SBR or something.
What are they going to do when someone comes in with one of those new Keltec PLR-16's ?
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Old 01-17-2006, 21:59   #9
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I think you should just reserve judgement until their "expert" looks at it.

I have registered guns with WB and always found them very friendly and quick about it. Although I don't understand the cadet system. I had to explain to one cadet the meaning of a double negative and why he was wrong about one of the answers on the quiz. ;Q Screw working the desk, send them to Detroit for a couple years instead and let them get a real eduaction on what it's like to police, not just fill out forms and work the phones. Teach them the difference between good citizens and criminals. I made the observation that when I'm in WB and I see a cop I get affraid because if I fart wrong they will probably pull me over and ticket me after a verbal abusing. Meanwhile, when I'm in Detroit I feel relieved when a squad car rolls by.

Come tommorrow if the "expert" wants to keep it, then pick up the phone and get pissed.
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Old 01-17-2006, 22:14   #10
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The advice to just see how things go tomorrow sounds really appropriate.

You won't have any recourse about them keeping your gun overnight while trying to decide for themselves if what you walked in the door with is legal or not...(despite your knowledge and probably even looking like a decent sort, cops get lied to often). Let me rephrase that...you can sue, and raise a fuss and whine, or just let them satisfy themselves that it (and you) are okay, and you'll have your gun registered in short order.

If not, THEN it's time to start making some noise. Will you FORCE them to give over your gun before they're ready to? I doubt it. Can they be persuaded through enlightened-assistance from maybe the MSP Gun Registration gurus in Lansing? Sure...but YOU can't get hold of these folks, they CAN.

Hope their "expert" doesn't use a vacation day or something.
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Old 01-18-2006, 00:47   #11
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That's sucks that they are so clueless where you took it. I took my Vector AK underfolder (26" folded) in to my local PD and got it registered as a pistol with no problem. Your AK pistol looks more like a pistol than mine does, that's for sure.

I would definitely be pissed that they kept it. I hope everything goes well for you when you go back.

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Old 01-18-2006, 14:37   #12
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Well, I went back in this morning, and it went about like I expected. After waiting another half hour for some simple paperwork to be drawn up, they begrudgingly gave it back.

I have never felt so much like a criminal for trying to follow the law. If I wasn't sure before, it sure is apparent how much easier it would be to just ignore the whole shebang.

When I asked what the problem was that caused all this, all the cadet could tell me was that there were more than one serial number. Once again I had to politely explain the difference between a number for parts matching, and the serial number of the actual gun/receiver according to the ATF. The look, bordering on blank, told me I was wasting my time.

He then asked what this [gun] was for as he handed it to me, basically asking the age old, "why do you need this thing?", along with a questioning look. It caught me off guard, and I simply told him it was yet another toy. I said that was an interesting question, and he sheepishly answered that he'd never seen anything like it.

So, I asked for my tax payer funded gun locks, and left.

Of course, my gun was in pieces. I assume their "firearms expert" had to check to see if it were full auto.

I mean, honestly, if I had something illegal, or had illegal intentions, would I really be that colossal of an idiot to bring it in to them?

I'm still in awe of their lack of understanding when it comes to very basic firearms law. I'm not talking complicated NFA regs here, I'm talking basic location of a serial number and recognizing a pistol vs. rifle. I still can't believe the Lt was feeding me lines about not being qualified to say if it was a pistol or rifle, "Because it sure looks like a rifle to me".

And then we have their attitude when dealing with me. It was their lack of understanding and ignorance that caused this problem, with me bring 100% legal, yet I was inconvenienced and treated as though I was trying to do something wrong. Does anyone else understand where my feelings of injustice are coming from? I want so badly to not have a chip on my shoulder when dealing with the police in simple matters of following the law, but if this isn't negative reinforcement, I don't know what is.

Don't ask me why, but I expected better from west bloomfield PD.
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Last edited by 10 Ring Tao; 01-18-2006 at 14:42..
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Old 01-18-2006, 14:52   #13
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We already have a national registration. Why don't you guys work to overturn the state registration.
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Old 01-18-2006, 15:23   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by 4eyes
We already have a national registration. Why don't you guys work to overturn the state registration.
What national gun registration are you talking about?
And to the second, we are.
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Old 01-18-2006, 15:24   #15
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10 Ring,
I hear you, I'd be pissed to.
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Old 01-18-2006, 18:38   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by gsbell
What national gun registration are you talking about?
Every firearm that passes through an ffl dealer has a FBI/Homeland Security check on the purchaser. If you really think that info is deleted within 24 hours, say Hi to Alice when she skips down the street.
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Old 01-18-2006, 20:12   #17
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4eyes,
I hear you. I don't want to believe that but you are probably right.
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Old 01-18-2006, 20:46   #18
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You have to register your guns? ;P

I don't think I could bring myself to do that. ;g ;c
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Old 01-18-2006, 20:51   #19
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I saw some cop call a springfield XD a glock the other day. He looks at it and says, Yep, it's a Glock.;g
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Old 01-18-2006, 21:04   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by 4TS&W
You have to register your guns? ;P

I don't think I could bring myself to do that. ;g ;c
Handguns, and yes I cringe everytime.
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