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Old 01-21-2015, 16:41   #1
longbedbob
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Educate me on the Saiga Z132Z.

For reference:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...+16%22+30R+SYN

I have two VZ2008s. I mainly bought them to test the 7.62 waters, but found them to be decent, lightweight and fun little guns to plink with. I understand that they aren't true Kalashnikovs but are "close enough" for me.

After hearing the announcement that RWC was going to start stamping out their own AKs here, I figured now would be the last chance to for a while (if ever) to pick up a Russian made AK. So I jumped on the cheapest I found.

Anyway, questions...

1. From the literature, I'm fairly certain that it accepts generic AK magazines with no alteration required unlike some Saigas. True?

2. Is wooden furniture available? It used to be the case that people had to unsporterize stock Saigas to get them to be tactical. I'd like to "un-tacti-kewel" mine to be more traditional.

3. Do they come with a receiver side rail installed for scope mount?

4. Anything else I need to know?


Mine won't arrive until last next week (around my Bday ) and I haven't found out much online about RWC's upper price point AKs. So, I'm anxious to get up to speed on my impulse buy.

Last edited by longbedbob; 01-21-2015 at 16:43..
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Old 01-22-2015, 20:43   #2
jp3975
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Takes standard mags.

You should be able to use a wood stock. I slide one into my Saiga and it fit perfect. I really dont care for the furniture on that one. Ive got one with wood and one with Zenit/JEC Custom furniture. Best of the best imo.

Saigas typically have a side rail to mount a rail on.

Looks like its not threaded. You should also look into Vepr. Saigas are lighter but Vepr is more accurite typically.

www.gunwatcher.com

You can enter Saiga or Vepr in here and find the bet price and where they are available.
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Old 01-22-2015, 20:49   #3
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Good price. I bought one for the same reason on Black Friday. Paid $20 more for it from my LGS.

It will take a generic Tapco or other AK mag. It is "converted".

I think I've seen wood available for it.

Don't know about the side rail (I don't want to go dig mine out right now and I haven't even shot mine yet).
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Old 01-23-2015, 07:33   #4
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Ok, just checked. Mine has the side rail for a scope.
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Old 01-23-2015, 07:56   #5
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Excellent, guys, thanks!

I was just looking at side rail options. Good to know that it already comes with one. One less thing to deal with.
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Old 01-23-2015, 18:05   #6
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Tacticool ****e AK pimped to the max... appeals to teenweens with acne....lotsa rails and ridges for show.

I have a Saiga AK, and it "sho' don' look like that".

This thing will weigh more than your VZ2008, with all that "polymer stuff".

Missing the threaded barrel and the bayonet lug.


Wait for the Century's- made in USA, version 2, nitrided, to come to market.
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Old 01-23-2015, 20:26   #7
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Wait for the Century's- made in USA, version 2, nitrided, to come to market.
It's out now.
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:17   #8
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Tacticool ****e AK pimped to the max... appeals to teenweens with acne....lotsa rails and ridges for show.

I have a Saiga AK, and it "sho' don' look like that".

This thing will weigh more than your VZ2008, with all that "polymer stuff".

Missing the threaded barrel and the bayonet lug.


Wait for the Century's- made in USA, version 2, nitrided, to come to market.
Thanks for the post. But you did see point #2 in my original post, right?

And I'm well aware of the C39 V2s which are already on the market.

But if I'm going to have one "AK", I want one that is B России Granted it's been converted, but converted by the sole licensed importer of Saiga rifles, which not even they can get their hands on now.

I'm looking at it as a collection piece, not as a go to rifle.

Last edited by longbedbob; 01-24-2015 at 08:18..
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Old 01-24-2015, 14:10   #9
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Congratulations. That is a nicely equipped fancy Saiga you will have there.
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Old 01-24-2015, 19:40   #10
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Congratulations. That is a nicely equipped fancy Saiga you will have there.
Thanks, but the plastic is coming off and wood going back on. I'll maybe even add a POSP scope.

Thanks to the embargo, this is the only Russian stamped AKM model that I could find on the new market. There might be some of the basic Saiga sporters floating around. But after converting them I'd be out the same money. I might as well pay a little extra and have the importer do it.
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Old 01-24-2015, 21:33   #11
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I left my Saiga bare bones; it is the 20" version that I picked up used about 2 years ago, and have not converted it yet. Runs like a champ.
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Old 01-25-2015, 20:53   #12
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If your main reason is to own a Russian AK for collection, then why don't you look for a Legion?? While they are pricey, especially now, they have no extra holes and come with bullet guides, unmolested gas blocks, correct FSB, etc.
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Old 01-25-2015, 22:00   #13
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If your main reason is to own a Russian AK for collection, then why don't you look for a Legion?? While they are pricey, especially now, they have no extra holes and come with bullet guides, unmolested gas blocks, correct FSB, etc.

The Legion AKs are the same basic Saigas with third party conversions. Granted, they are more "authentic" conversions and nicer looking that RWC's.

They also run $3-400 more, if you can find them in stock.

Since RWC is (well, was) the sole authorized importer for the Kalashnikov Concern, I see them as the Colt equivalent of the AK world. Time will tell if I'm right. If not, well...it's a nice starter AK
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Old 01-25-2015, 23:25   #14
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Legion is Izhmash's custom shop, not to be confused with Legion that imported Russian Saiga's, and they aren't the same as the basic Saiga sporter, like the one in the link. The Saiga on the link is a civilian sporter version that originally came with extra holes in the receiver for the relocated trigger components (you can see the plastic plugs in the pic used to cover the holes) and fore-stock, non-standard safety selector, non-standard gas block, non-standard FSB, no cleaning rod provision, no lugs, and other stuff I can't remember. It may not even have the X and Y stamps on the receiver. I also noticed they didn't even bother replacing the rear sight with the correct 1000m sight.
Whoever tacticooled that rifle, had to add 922 parts to make it compliant, just like a Legion, but then added all kinds of stuff that moved the end product far from an authentic Russian AK. If you want to call that an authentic Russian AK, then call it as you wish.
The true Legions, on the other hand, were hand assembled by Legion in Russia, then sent to Arsenal in NV - if you want to call them a 3rd party - for final conversion and addition of 922 compliant parts. It has the correct receiver and markings and all the correct features of the Russian AK.
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Old 01-26-2015, 07:17   #15
longbedbob
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Legion is Izhmash's custom shop, not to be confused with Legion that imported Russian Saiga's, and they aren't the same as the basic Saiga sporter, like the one in the link. The Saiga on the link is a civilian sporter version that originally came with extra holes in the receiver for the relocated trigger components (you can see the plastic plugs in the pic used to cover the holes) and fore-stock, non-standard safety selector, non-standard gas block, non-standard FSB, no cleaning rod provision, no lugs, and other stuff I can't remember. It may not even have the X and Y stamps on the receiver. I also noticed they didn't even bother replacing the rear sight with the correct 1000m sight.
Whoever tacticooled that rifle, had to add 922 parts to make it compliant, just like a Legion, but then added all kinds of stuff that moved the end product far from an authentic Russian AK. If you want to call that an authentic Russian AK, then call it as you wish.
The true Legions, on the other hand, were hand assembled by Legion in Russia, then sent to Arsenal in NV - if you want to call them a 3rd party - for final conversion and addition of 922 compliant parts. It has the correct receiver and markings and all the correct features of the Russian AK.

I didn't know all that and my RWC is already inbound.

The Legions look interesting, but are still converted Saigas as best I can tell. Some still have only the 500 yard sights.

https://www.legionusa.com/saiga-vepr...ga-rifles.html

Post 922 certainly blurs the lines as to what's "authentic" or not.

Still, nice guns. Had I not spent on the RWC I would have spent a bit more on the Legion.

Had I not also bought a Tavor a few weeks ago, I'd buy it anyway.

Last edited by longbedbob; 01-26-2015 at 07:31..
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Old 01-26-2015, 16:02   #16
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Just pointing this out again...Legion USA is NOT the same as the Legion custom shop in Russia that made the SGL series of rifles. The link you're providing above is for Legion USA. I believe they just took the name, kind of like Kalashnikov Concern did here in the US.
As for the 500m sights, when the SGL rifles were modified by Arsenal of NV, part of the process was to replace whatever sights were on the rifle with the correct, 1000m sights, so they all have 1000m sights in Cyrillic. 500m sights belong on the shorter-barreled 100-series AKs, such as the AK-102 and AK-105 and 105-1.
In the post-922 world, the Legions are - to me - as close to an authentic Russian AK* as you can get with the major components being Russian. But to each his own and that point could be argued all day too. In fact, an Egyptian Maadi can boast it was made on Soviet equipment....100%, so is that closer?
Anyway, Dinzag's website has a tutorial on what goes into modifying a sporter (vs a Legion). If you open the PDF, you can see the holes I was talking about too and then compare them to the pic.
Overall, no big deal. Enjoy your Saiga as it is still a Russian AK and post some pics when you get it.

*For true authenticity though, even certain Legions were not correct representations of actual Russian AKs. For example, my 7.62 Legion was never actually made as an issued Russian AK. You see, the Legions represent the "Century" series of AKs, such as the AK-101 and 102, all based on the AK-74M. As such, it should have a folding stock, which mine doesn't, and should be close to the AK-103.
My 5.45 Legion should be a close copy of the AK-74M, but it too doesn't have the folding stock, so it's actually closer to the original AK-74. However, mine also has the accessory rail, which came on the "M", not on the original -74s. It's complicated.
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