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Old 08-10-2006, 22:52   #1
D.S.Brown
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Annoyed w/ Recruiter!

First off let me say that I am 39 years old with 4 years of prior service in the Infantry, (86-90). I also possess a bachelors degree in Criminal Justice.

I am in the process of joining with the Dallas Police Department. This is going well so far. Just passed the panel Applicant interview board. My app is now in the hands of a background investigator. All is going well.

However I believe in back-up plans. I decided to talk to a recruiter about Officer Candidate School. Yes I know being a 40 year old 2nd lieutenant is unorthodox, considering most guys who are officers at that age are usually O-5's or O-6's. I do remember meeting a Belgian 2nd lieutenant back when I was stationed in Germany. I also know it is physically daunting.

However I am non phased so I seek the services of our local recruiter. Upon entering I told him my background and what I wished to do. He proceeded to ignore my information and treated me like a 17 year old who just wandered in from the high school across the street.

I was told I was too old. I expected this. I asked about waivers and he said there were NONE! He did tell me that I could return as my previous rank of E-4 Specialist. I dismissed this immediatley and asked about waivers for Warrant Officer School and Flight School. Again I was too old and no there weren't any. The recruiter sitting across from him chimed in that "they may be changing that soon." Undaunted the E-7 I was talking with continued that since the Army upped the age of enlistment to 42 and I had prior service I could easily get back in as an E-4. I asked how long it would take me to make E-5 just to see where he would take this and what kind of half truth would spew from his mouth. He informed me that my commander at my next duty post COULD promote me immediately to E-5 on the spot if he chose to do so. IF! This made me mad when I thought hmmm but no one can sign a waiver to make me an officer. Our Sergeant 1st Class continued on stating that he could probably sign me up as an MP for say 3 years. I'd get out and get right into Dallas P.D. He must have forgot that I am most of the way there already. I proceeded to thank him for his time and left.

Now my *****. Yes being an officer is rigorous especially during war time! However I imagine that being a potential 42 year old private during said period could be problematic as well. Secondly we are at war and the military is operating at a higher tempo with fewer troops. Thirdly I have valuable skills and life experience that combined with proper training could make me a good leader of troops. Lastly I didn't just fall off a turnip truck and land on my head. I've been around the block a bit. This much I know about the Army and life in general. THERE IS A WAIVER FOR EVERYTHING! It's usually just a matter of finding the right person to sign off on it.

Case in point: February 1991, six months after leaving active service with a bar to re-enlistment for being overweight, I got called back to duty in the waning days of Gulf War I. I informed this major of the status I left the service, (barred), and informed her there must be some kind of mistake. Besides I was really fat by then. She informed me and I quote because the words were seared into my mind. "Those were peace time rules. We're at war now." Loosely translated that means money, talks bull**** walks. I plan to quote that major to the next recruiter I talk to.

I have nothing against the Army and consider myself patriotic. I did the enlisted thing once. I do not think officers are superior to enlisted or vice versa. It's been my experience that stupididty does not discriminate based on rank, though sadly the two lamest officers I ever met had prior enlisted experience.

So I am looking for the waiver that I know is buried deep somewhere. Probably in that warehouse where they stored the lost Arc of the Covenant in Raiders of the Lost Arc.

Anyone with insight I would appreciate your wisdom, just keep in mind that I am not open to any peace time rules stuff. We are at war, the Army needs manpower, and if they can enlist someone to be a potentially 42 year old private, they can bring in a 40 year old 2nd lieutenant! There might be a movie there.

Best,
Dave
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Old 08-10-2006, 23:13   #2
ArmoredGlock
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try contacting another recruiter. That one probably did not want to do the paperwork. I don't think recruiting prior service counts on their recruiting quota so that might be why theres no motivation.
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Old 08-11-2006, 20:27   #3
A_Swede_17_1911
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Hey man, what you can do is get everything you need togather for the OCS packet, drop it in front of a recruiter, tell them
that you would like to go OCS and know you need a waiver, and relize that you might not/probably wont be approved. Thats it is something that you want to pursue.


The Army requires a waiver over 32 years old for OCS, up to the age of 41, but its that a waiver doesn't mean they have to approve it. Its and execption to policy. The only waivers I have seen approved over that age of 32 have been for Medical Doctors.


Also its towards the end of the recruiting calender month, there looking for people to go now, not in the next 4 weeks, either.
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Old 08-12-2006, 22:00   #4
JimmyMN
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Glock: For Hire, answer this: Why do you think you deserve a waiver when the level of your commitment to the Army is a "...backup plan..."?
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Old 08-13-2006, 14:55   #5
Sam White
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If you're dead set on being an Army officer, go talk to an Army National Guard recruiter. The Guard does have waivers up to age 40 (for non-prior service), I'm sure your years of prior service would help. Your infantry experience couldn't hurt, either. The Guard tends to be more accepting that way. You could transfer to active duty once your training is done. A guy at my civilian employer did exactly that, so I know it can be done.

Just a suggestion; I think if you find a good recruiter and show a sincere interest in helping out/doing your part you'll be an LT in a year or two.
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Old 08-13-2006, 18:17   #6
AKJD
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Doing a packet for OCS takes time, even more when it requires a waiver. I'm sure the recruiter has nothing better to do than spend his time on someone who has not even made a commitment to join.

If I was him I would have handed you a packet and told you to come back when its done and you're ready to make a commitment.

I spent 3 years as a detailed recruiter and hated every minute of it. If someone didn't show me that they were 110% committed when they requested an OCS or WO packet, I didn't start the work. It just took to much of my time to complete and then to have someone come back and say, sorry, but this was my option B and I've decided to do something else, but thanks for wasting your time for me anyways. He's the one that should be annoyed.

So as they say, S**t or get off the pot, but don't waste the recruiters time, he has a mission to do.

I'll get off my now.
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Old 08-14-2006, 15:50   #7
dac1204
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArmoredGlock
try contacting another recruiter. That one probably did not want to do the paperwork. I don't think recruiting prior service counts on their recruiting quota so that might be why theres no motivation.
It doesnt help with their quota.
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Old 08-14-2006, 15:52   #8
dac1204
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The reason that they dont want to help prior service most of the time is because they think that if you got out once then you are not really sure want you want to do and that you dont care. Like the other poster said try the National Gaurd. They usually will take prior service.
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Old 08-14-2006, 15:55   #9
dac1204
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Quote:
Originally posted by AKJD
Doing a packet for OCS takes time, even more when it requires a waiver. I'm sure the recruiter has nothing better to do than spend his time on someone who has not even made a commitment to join.

If I was him I would have handed you a packet and told you to come back when its done and you're ready to make a commitment.

I spent 3 years as a detailed recruiter and hated every minute of it. If someone didn't show me that they were 110% committed when they requested an OCS or WO packet, I didn't start the work. It just took to much of my time to complete and then to have someone come back and say, sorry, but this was my option B and I've decided to do something else, but thanks for wasting your time for me anyways. He's the one that should be annoyed.

So as they say, S**t or get off the pot, but don't waste the recruiters time, he has a mission to do.

I'll get off my now.
Thats why recruiters get bad names. What else do you have to do with your time. Like you said you have a mission to do so help who ever comes through that door. So to say they are wasting your time is bull. I know that it gets bad when someone cant make up their mind what they want do but thats what you are there for.
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Old 08-14-2006, 16:47   #10
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It's the recruiter's job to help you sign up-not something he does out of the goodness of his heart. If he thought you weren't serious enough, he should have been man enough to tell you, "mister, an OCS packet is a lot of work, prove to me you're willing, and ... " So don't listen to these guys who act like it's your fault that the guy wouldn't help.

Call another recruiter and tell him you want to enlist for the OCS option. Have him tell you the appropriate rules and regulations, and, if necasary, ask if you can come in and pick up a copy (most are online anyway).

Also, ask if there's a better person to talk to. I know from first hand experience that recruiters receive no credit for helping college students enter ROTC, so when they get a call about it, they try to 1.) Convince the person to enlist instead (in which case they get credit) or 2.) end the conversation as quickly as possible (time is money and you're not making them any).

Seeing as he was so insistent on enlisting you, it could be #1.
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Old 08-14-2006, 17:17   #11
AKJD
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Quote:
Originally posted by dac1204
What else do you have to do with your time.
You obviously have no clue. Their job is to put enlisted soldiers in the Army. He's not just sitting on his hands waiting for people to fall into his lap wanting to join cause thats not going to happen. OCS packets are not his priority. I guarantee you his time is very valuable and micromanaged to a degree that you can't even imagine. Go spend a couple years as a recruiter and then tell me how it is.

Like I said, I would give you the packet and tell you when you are ready to join, submit it. Until then, don't waste his time, he does have a mission to do.
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Old 08-14-2006, 21:39   #12
D.S.Brown
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To All,

Thank you for your enlightened and helpful responses. Here's why a little more enthusiasm should have been shown by said recruiter. I have shown interest, our country is at war, and I'm betting that the U.S. Army could use a willing and motivated 2nd lieutenant or two with a smidge of experience willing to learn, lead, and be lead.

To those of you stuck on my use of the words "back up plan," think of the first duty post the U.S. Army is going to send me after my Officer Basic Course and whatever supplemental training they may require. I'm thinking Iraq or Afghanistan, or to a unit stateside about to rotate to one of those places.

So think of this for a second, I'm either going to be patrolling in Southeast, Southwest, or Northwest Divisions of the city of Dallas, (by choice). These locals are hardly Andy Griffith's Mayberry. Or my "back-up" plan will most likely send me patrolling some wonderful local such as Bagdad, Fallujah, Najef, or Mosul.

I don't deserve flowers, parades, or medals, or any recognition for that matter because thousands of men and women are doing great heroic work in Iraq, and Dallas for that matter. However please don't question my committment for neither endeavor could be construed as a cake walk.

Again thanks for all of the positive input.

Respectively,

Davd S. Brown
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Old 08-16-2006, 00:43   #13
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Glock: For Hire, I wish you well whichever way you end up going, for I'm sure you'll do a great job.

My question was positive, but challenging. It is my opinion that if you set your sights on a career as an Army officer, you will achieve just that...however, if you treat it as a "back up plan", you'll likely not get there.

Choose your direction, commit to it and then stick to it...best wishes for continued success.
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Old 08-16-2006, 07:42   #14
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I'm gonna look like a dick again (nothing new), but seriously wtf have you been doing with your life these past 4 decades that dictates such a drastic change?



Here's the latest story from a 40 y/o wonder soldier..someone who wasn't stable enough to decide he wanted to be in the service before he got older and had wife and a couple kids:

Gets out here to Iraq. First week he's in Mosul, we have a SMALL mascal (mass casualty) event. Something like 8 Iraqi's get blown up. Not a big deal. He is in the AO, so he swings in to help. This wonder private sees his first dead body. The guys not even that bad off (other than being dead). Wonder private freaks out and 3 days later drops by my office to inquire about being a concientious objector. A week later I find out he requested emergency leave (his CO packet was denied) because his daughter breaks her arm. Emergency leave is denied. Some how, after being in Iraq about 2.5 weeks and in the Middle East a total of maybe 4 weeks, he's given a waiver to go home on regular R&R.

Don't be this guy.


It is my honest opinion that you (30+ y/o new soldiers) all are the same...unstable.

OUT
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Old 08-16-2006, 08:00   #15
D.S.Brown
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JimmyMN,

Duly Noted! Thank you for your positive input. I seriously appreciate it a lot. BTW I was w/ 1st ID, Cco 5/16th Infantry at Ft. Riley back in 89-90.

16vmk11,

What have I been doing? Soldier, Student, Legal Assistant, Correctional Officer, Teacher, and now back to LE and or military work. Not offered as an explanation but teaching turned out to be far less desirable, and I have always felt drawn to military/ law enforcement work. Unstable? Maybe but not for the reasons you might suggest. I'm no concientious objector and I know full well what will be expected of me. I'm not married either, probably one of those guys that is getting a relatively late start to life and is destined for bachelorhood. The flip side is that closing in on 40 I feel more confident about my decisions than say when I was 20-25. SO in reference to your experience with your 40 year old wonder soldier, I WON'T be that guy! BTW is 16vmk11 some type of MOS designation? Just curious.

Best,
Dave
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Old 08-20-2006, 17:26   #16
Mterada
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The army as a backup plan is a very, very poor choice.

Choose what you want to do, then do it. Dont half ass 2 things. If serving in the military again is as important to you as you make it out to be, then re-enlist if they wont do the ocs packet for you.

Find out who does the ocs recruiting for that office and talk to them.

However, expecting a recruiter to jump through his ass for waivers for a 40 year old prior service person who was barred from reenlisting isnt realistic.
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Old 08-21-2006, 22:05   #17
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"Yes I know being a 40 year old 2nd lieutenant is unorthodox" - It's not really unorthodox or the Army wouldnt let you do it.

Glock: For Hire, having watched for three decades a number of really talented guys (sorry Ladies) screw up their careers by vascillating between specialities and gaming the hell out service life to no avail, I suggest that you get in the groove and get that OCS application done this week. You can find a way to get one and get it done. You're a bright guy, get on it.

Prior Army service, criminal justice degree, correctional officer and teacher. You should incorporate these experiences into an Army that's in desperate bloody need for military police professionals. I've seen men go from 0-1 to 0-3 in twelve months given the extraordinary needs of the service for specific specialities during wartime.

I am amazed that you would consider going back as a private - did you learn nothing in your prior service - you've been there done that. If you are still considering private first class as an option at this stage of life you need more than advice from us. Private is perfect for the new recruit who needs training, leadership, experience and expertise - that's not you. You could make a contribution today with your background.

Last edited by Boats2006; 08-22-2006 at 08:01..
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Old 09-02-2006, 07:49   #18
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It all boils down to a numbers game!

For officers, particularly, there is a master plan for officers at certain age and rank levels. The master plan keeps changing to the ever changing "needs of the service", which really isn't due to any evil intent, it is just that the "needs of the service" are often changing.

In the mid-70's, the Army was hungry for entry level second lieutenants, whil RIFing (kicking out) many captains with Vietnam combat experience, though often surplus chopper aviators.

If your local recruiter doesn't want a forty year lieutenant, it is the "needs of the service", not him personally. Don't take it personally.

At the same time, don't give up. The needs of the service keep changing.

BTW, do you want to report to a 25 - year old?
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