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Old 01-19-2014, 16:07   #1
G19 A4
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Ultra Lightweight, Ultra Compact prepper rifle idea?

I have been wanting to pick up a large caliber (.30) precision rifle capable of achieving hits at decent distances (Read in priority order: accuracy, range, punch way above and way beyond .223 or any other intermediate cartridges). I want it to be HIGHLY MOBILE, primarily for “general prepper duties”, but can also be used for hunting deer, etc.

My main requirements are ultra LIGHTWEIGHT, followed by ultra COMPACTNESS…even concealable.

Initially, I considered a semi for fast followup shots. I considered the Kel-tec RFB for compactness, but then reconsidered the manufacturer. Then, I considered one of the .308 AR-types, but they are heavy and bulky (length). The lightest I’ve found is the LaRue PredatAR, but still too heavy and bulky (7.75 lb. based on 16” barrel, unloaded without optics and accessories). Then I wondered if I even needed a semi. (Think no giveaway second shot in prepper mode.)

1st question: I have some limited experience in deer hunting. Have any of you with actual vast hunting experiences ever NEEDED semiauto capability for immediate follow-up shots?

Then, my idea morphed from semis to a bolt action for potential/perceived increased accuracy. Increased RELIABILITY due to a less complex and lighter action. Initially, I “wanted” a Remington 700P LTR in .300 RSAUM for truly long distance capability and penetration. Or maybe in .308 for ammo availability. But at 7.5 lb. naked, and a 40” length…reducible to 36” if I cut the barrel down to 16”. Reduced even further to 26” length if I used some kind of folding stock. However, the weight would probably be in the neighborhood of 10 lbs fully dressed out....WAAAY too heavy.

Recently, I have been inspired by this build in the following thread:
http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...-new-TC-Encore

It seems to offer what I am looking for:
1) .30 caliber
2) Lightweight
3) Compact to the point of concealable with 16” barrel.
4) Reliable action, even less complex and more compact than a bolt action.
5) The 16” barrel will eventually be threaded and suppressed

2nd question: No-free-lunch downside is SLOW second shot capability, but would I “need” this capability?

3rd question: Can you guys critique my reasoning and choice?

4th question: What sky-is-the-limit scope is recommended, keeping with the theme of lightweight and compact...yet RUGGED?

5th question: Equipped with a cost-no-limit scope, what do you think is the maximum range and accuracy capability of this 16” barreled build, assuming the shooter did his part.

Additional questions: I do not have any experience with Thompson Center firearms. Are they quality and ACCURATE guns?
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Old 01-19-2014, 16:21   #2
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What are general [prepper] duties?

What is [prepper] mode?


Are you saying you want a small, lightweight, semi-auto Battle Rifle in 303-up kinda ballpark? Is that what you are asking about?
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Old 01-19-2014, 16:24   #3
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The rifle your talking about will have no need for follow up shots on deer. If you do your part it will do its part.


But if you want semi auto hard to over look a Ruger mini 30

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Old 01-19-2014, 16:25   #4
G19 A4
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Definitely not a battle rifle...."precision rifle."

A one shot, one "deer" type of deal.
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When you need a handgun, a carbine is not as good as a handgun.
When you need a shotgun, a carbine is not as good as a shotgun.
When you need a rifle, a carbine is not as good as a rifle.
When you DON'T KNOW what you NEED, take a carbine.

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Old 01-19-2014, 16:28   #5
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Originally Posted by cfrye11 View Post
The rifle your talking about will have no need for follow up shots on deer. If you do your part it will do its part.


But if you want semi auto hard to over look a Ruger mini 30

cftye11
Mini30 is 7.62x39. No intermediate cartridges. Want something with much more accuracy and range.
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When you need a rifle, a carbine is not as good as a rifle.
When you DON'T KNOW what you NEED, take a carbine.
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Old 01-19-2014, 16:36   #6
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I am buying a Ruger Scout in .308 this year. Bolt with 10, 5, or 3 round magazine and lots of reach. I think that a good optic on this rifle is a nice tool.
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Old 01-19-2014, 16:40   #7
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I have no idea what your hunting laws are like but if you are asking about a lightweight 8-lbs, compact, 16"barrel, 308, semi rifle. That sounds like a Robarm XCR-M (mini).
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Old 01-19-2014, 16:44   #8
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Originally Posted by UneasyRider View Post
I am buying a Ruger Scout in .308 this year. Bolt with 10, 5, or 3 round magazine and lots of reach. I think that a good optic on this rifle is a nice tool.
WAAAY too big/heavy for what I envision. Check out the link in my OP. I just don't know if the project gun in the link is too niche and lack practical versatility.

That Ruger Scout is definitely one sexy looking bullet launcher, esp. with that grey laminated wood. Ooozes hotness. Good luck with it.
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When you need a handgun, a carbine is not as good as a handgun.
When you need a shotgun, a carbine is not as good as a shotgun.
When you need a rifle, a carbine is not as good as a rifle.
When you DON'T KNOW what you NEED, take a carbine.

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Old 01-19-2014, 16:45   #9
G19 A4
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Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
I have no idea what your hunting laws are like but if you are asking about a lightweight 8-lbs, compact, 16"barrel, 308, semi rifle. That sounds like a Robarm XCR-M (mini).
WAAAY too heavy, and not yet scoped.
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When you need a handgun, a carbine is not as good as a handgun.
When you need a shotgun, a carbine is not as good as a shotgun.
When you need a rifle, a carbine is not as good as a rifle.
When you DON'T KNOW what you NEED, take a carbine.

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Old 01-19-2014, 16:46   #10
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I've shot over 50 deer, elk, 3 bears, a couple pronhorn, piles of coyotes, a couple bobcats and more waterfowl than I can count. As long as your bolt action gun is magazine fed you will have no problem with a quick follow up shot. Watch some one who's good with a bolt gun, they can be very fast.

Get a rem 700 in 308. No mag chambering. If your going with a short barrel it won't matter anyways. Rem made a few titiatium MTN guns, look for one of these. Get a krieeger or shillin super light profile and have a smith thread and install. They'll finish at whatever length you want. They gun will be accurate to whatever range you can keep a bullet super sonic. Also go on line and find a super light weight stock. There's plenty out there.

As far as optics, you get what you pay for. My big heavy guns have big heavy scopes. A swarvaski z3 in one of the lower power ranges should work perfect. Get a set of talley rings and mounts.
Basically you want a sheep rifle with a shorter barrel.
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Old 01-19-2014, 16:58   #11
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Originally Posted by orangeride View Post
I've shot over 50 deer, elk, 3 bears, a couple pronhorn, piles of coyotes, a couple bobcats and more waterfowl than I can count. As long as your bolt action gun is magazine fed you will have no problem with a quick follow up shot. Watch some one who's good with a bolt gun, they can be very fast.

Get a rem 700 in 308. No mag chambering. If your going with a short barrel it won't matter anyways. Rem made a few titiatium MTN guns, look for one of these. Get a krieeger or shillin super light profile and have a smith thread and install. They'll finish at whatever length you want. They gun will be accurate to whatever range you can keep a bullet super sonic. Also go on line and find a super light weight stock. There's plenty out there.

As far as optics, you get what you pay for. My big heavy guns have big heavy scopes. A swarvaski z3 in one of the lower power ranges should work perfect. Get a set of talley rings and mounts.
Basically you want a sheep rifle with a shorter barrel.
Thanks for your personal experiences. I'm actually looking to sacrifice fast, slow, or ANY followup shots in order to reduce weight and size. ALOT of weight and size. I just wonder if I'm going too far to achieve it and lose ALL practicality in a single-shot.

With your extensive personal hunting experience, esp. on medium/large animals, have you ever needed a QUICK second shot that it would have made a difference?
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When you need a handgun, a carbine is not as good as a handgun.
When you need a shotgun, a carbine is not as good as a shotgun.
When you need a rifle, a carbine is not as good as a rifle.
When you DON'T KNOW what you NEED, take a carbine.

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Old 01-19-2014, 17:30   #12
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Well...

300 BLK can be employed at extreme distances..

..even with integral suppressed SBR....as seen here..



The Houston Armory H300IC is integrally suppressed...

http://www.guns.com/2012/11/03/houst...lackout-upper/

..very compact.




I am running this in 30 caliber (300 BLK)....lightweight & compact.

(configured as a pistol not an SBR because of frequent interstate travel)



Unsuppressed.....9" barrel

Survival/Preparedness Forum




Suppressed..... (AAC 762SD)

Survival/Preparedness Forum



Considering this stock as an upgrade to an Seekins Leonidas 300 BLK....(fresh from SHOT 2014 )

Survival/Preparedness Forum


Survival/Preparedness Forum

300 BLK Leonidas is integrally suppressed (8" barrel) .....maybe 17.4" overall with suppressor??





You might want to look at an single-shot AAC Handirifle in 300 BLK..

..inexpensive, lightweight, compact & threaded 5/8x24 for suppressor..

..can be integrally suppressed for extreme lightweight compactness.
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Old 01-19-2014, 17:39   #13
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What about a 416 hushpuppy?
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Old 01-19-2014, 17:42   #14
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Well unfortunately your specifications are a paradox to begin with but I wanted to try.
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Old 01-19-2014, 17:51   #15
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Also...I don't know if you would consider the 300 blackout but AAC offers a single shot handi rifle that's suppressor ready that weighs in at 5lbs.

It appears to be an SBR at first glance and is ridiculously portable.

ETA: The handi rifle is offered in major calibers as well but the weight doesn't meet your criteria.
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Old 01-19-2014, 18:03   #16
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GQ19 A4: what's wrong with an 8-9 lb rifle? That's not that much weight. Toughen up buttercup?!?

Otherwise, go with Kimber Mountain style gun with a light scope.

I have never needed a second shot that couldn't be handled by a bolt, ever. I've been hunting nearly 20 years.

For concealabilitu I'd run a bolt gun or semi with a 10 rd mag...
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Old 01-19-2014, 18:21   #17
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Also...I don't know if you would consider the 300 blackout but AAC offers a single shot handi rifle that's suppressor ready that weighs in at 5lbs.

It appears to be an SBR at first glance and is ridiculously portable.

ETA: The handi rifle is offered in major calibers as well but the weight doesn't meet your criteria.

Yep.....Upper one is a AAC Handirifle with Silencerco Osprey

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Old 01-19-2014, 18:25   #18
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GQ19 A4: what's wrong with an 8-9 lb rifle? That's not that much weight. Toughen up buttercup?!?

Otherwise, go with Kimber Mountain style gun with a light scope.

I have never needed a second shot that couldn't be handled by a bolt, ever. I've been hunting nearly 20 years.

For concealabilitu I'd run a bolt gun or semi with a 10 rd mag...
Thanks for your input and suggestions.

It's not that I can't carry a 8-9lb rifle, I can.

I think you've missed my point in my specifications for this project rifle. I apologize as my English-Composition-Fu is weak. Think more along the lines of this prepper/SHTF forum, think stealth AND mobility.
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When you need a handgun, a carbine is not as good as a handgun.
When you need a shotgun, a carbine is not as good as a shotgun.
When you need a rifle, a carbine is not as good as a rifle.
When you DON'T KNOW what you NEED, take a carbine.

Last edited by G19 A4; 01-19-2014 at 18:27..
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Old 01-19-2014, 18:29   #19
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Yep.....Upper one is a AAC Handirifle with Silencerco Osprey

Survival/Preparedness Forum
Thanks LG1, I was hoping you would chime in this thread, as I think you know what I'm looking for.

Gonna go check out this AAC HandiBadBoy now. Still looks less than ideal compact-wise.
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When you need a rifle, a carbine is not as good as a rifle.
When you DON'T KNOW what you NEED, take a carbine.
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Old 01-19-2014, 18:33   #20
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I am buying a Ruger Scout in .308 this year. Bolt with 10, 5, or 3 round magazine and lots of reach. I think that a good optic on this rifle is a nice tool.
I'm a huge fan of the scout concept for a whole lot of things; maybe MOST things other than a combat/defensive/LE carbine. For a hunting/woods gun, it's phenomenal. Mine is an older one, cobbled up from a weatherby .308 lightweight carbine. They can still be had today at less than 6lbs (without optic), which I wouldn't know how to beat weight-wise for what it offers. But the scout scope doesn't lend itself to shooting past a couple hundred yards, at least in my hands.

For hunting, imo follow-up speed of a semiauto isn't critical; ymmv. If faster follow-up shots are critical to a person, I'd first look at the SBR's mentioned already. Then maybe look at a levergun like the BLR, a skeletonized 99C, or even a simple '92 action. While the 92 would typically give up some of the range you're wanting, they can be had at less than six pounds and still be good for a couple hundred yards; and that's further than I'm likely to be shooting at anything with a heartbeat. The BLR and 99C can definitely reach out there further than a '92 typically can, but at the cost of added weight; at least for the 99C. The BLR can be had (or used to) in a lightweight, takedown version that might be worth looking into.

If a person could forgo the follow-up shot issue, then a single-shot like the TC can be a very good option.

If trying to maximize everything without compromising anything, I'd have to agree with the SBR thing, even if it took tailored loads.

Personally, give me my suppressed 6-lb levergun pushing a 140-grain .35-caliber bullet at 2,000 fps, or the suppressed single-shot pushing the same load, and I'm happy.
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Old 01-19-2014, 18:45   #21
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1st question: I have some limited experience in deer hunting. Have any of you with actual vast hunting experiences ever NEEDED semiauto capability for immediate follow-up shots?
Yes. I shot a deer and broke its back but it was still mobile and dragging itself across the brush. Shot it again and it went down. Used a third shot for the coupe de grace - gotta love it when your scope gets knocked off and you're shooting crooked. Would it have gotten away? No. Would I have sat there fighting with it? Yeah. Make the kill quick, get the animal dressed and out of there even quicker.

Same season, my Uncle spotted a buck in full sprint through some brush. He took 4 shots at it in rapid succession. Thinks the third was the one that connected. Down, but not dead. He needed one more shot for a coup de grace.



THIS IS NOT THE NORM FOR HUNTING LARGE ANIMALS. But it is a possibility. Probably a lot more likely than some of the other crap you'll prepare for with your survival rifle.



Quote:
4th question: What sky-is-the-limit scope is recommended, keeping with the theme of lightweight and compact...yet RUGGED?
Scope brand is personal preference. I'm partial to Leupolds and Redfields (which, IIRC, are Leupolds now). ~200 bucks minimum. The important parts: Fully-multicoated optics. Gas filled, waterproof, fogproof. Click adjustments.

And buy one in the magnification range you need. If you're shooting in brush, you don't need a 3-9 scope and trying to line up a shot 30 yards away at 3x magnification is actually harder than doing it at 1.5 times. If you're shooting across mountains, you won't get much use out of a 1-4 scope for obvious reasons.

Just know that you can buy the best scope in the world and if you're in a SHTF scenario, its going to be largely useless after a full day of trudging through pretty much anywhere. You jostle a scoped rifle around, the scope gets knocked off. Its just that simple, don't care how many 0s were in the price tag of your scope.

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Old 01-19-2014, 18:54   #22
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IMHO the words precision and highly mobile can't be used to describe the same rifle. Light weight rifles just don't "settle in" the way a heavy rifle does for long range shots.

A quality hunting weight bolt action rifle is about as light, rugged, accurate as you can find.

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Old 01-19-2014, 19:23   #23
G19 A4
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Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
Well unfortunately your specifications are a paradox to begin with but I wanted to try.
I do appreciate the suggestions and your help.

Now a paradox AND what I want would be the tool in the link of my original post (Thompson Center Encore 16", with folding stock, parkerized, AND 4lbs WITH scope)....

....and capable of 1/4 moa at 1000yds.
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When you need a handgun, a carbine is not as good as a handgun.
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When you need a rifle, a carbine is not as good as a rifle.
When you DON'T KNOW what you NEED, take a carbine.
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Old 01-19-2014, 19:26   #24
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Originally Posted by G19 A4 View Post
WAAAY too big/heavy for what I envision. Check out the link in my OP. I just don't know if the project gun in the link is too niche and lack practical versatility.

That Ruger Scout is definitely one sexy looking bullet launcher, esp. with that grey laminated wood. Ooozes hotness. Good luck with it.
It sure makes my heart go pitter patter...
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Old 01-19-2014, 19:33   #25
G19 A4
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Also...I don't know if you would consider the 300 blackout but AAC offers a single shot handi rifle that's suppressor ready that weighs in at 5lbs.

It appears to be an SBR at first glance and is ridiculously portable.

ETA: The handi rifle is offered in major calibers as well but the weight doesn't meet your criteria.
AAC catalog claims 6.9 lbs naked.

Don't know much about the Blackout, except what I've read LG1 has posted as his adopted cartridge. He DEFINITELY has his **** together regarding the Blackout.

How does the Blackout compare to .308/7.62Nato? Is it capable of accuracy at 500 yds out of say an 16" tube?
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When you need a handgun, a carbine is not as good as a handgun.
When you need a shotgun, a carbine is not as good as a shotgun.
When you need a rifle, a carbine is not as good as a rifle.
When you DON'T KNOW what you NEED, take a carbine.

Last edited by G19 A4; 01-19-2014 at 19:40..
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