[freepatriot]

Stuckit.

[Gmountain]

If you have a CCW, you can do anything you want with the weapon, as long as it is out of plain view. No holster is required, nor is it required to be securely encased.

You can put it in your lap, in your pants, in a pocket, in the glove box, in your holster, anything you want to do.

[SW.FLA.glocker]

Great!!!!!!

Now that we have established all of these details in a more civilized manner than that "other" thread of a similar nature let me pose one more question.

Shouldn't this holster http://www.desantisholster.com/n92.html

be ok to use for a non CWP holder? It was argued in another thread that this holster would be considered concealed. I think that thread was locked ue to people not being able to "just get along"...lol. According to what everyone here agrees upon, the holster/weapon NEEDS to be concealed, or at least out of plain sight. So, once again, shouldn't this holster be OK for CWP and non CWP alike?

[Gmountain]

Originally posted by SW.FLA.glocker
Great!!!!!!

Now that we have established all of these details in a more civilized manner than that "other" thread of a similar nature let me pose one more question.

Shouldn't this holster http://www.desantisholster.com/n92.html

be ok to use for a non CWP holder? It was argued in another thread that this holster would be considered concealed. I think that thread was locked ue to people not being able to "just get along"...lol. According to what everyone here agrees upon, the holster/weapon NEEDS to be concealed, or at least out of plain sight. So, once again, shouldn't this holster be OK for CWP and non CWP alike?

For some reason the link doesn't work.

For a CCW, it is fine, of course. For a non CCW, I don't see the snapped thumb break. The statute says snapped.

I also think it would be construed as on or about the person, which takes it out of the private conveyance exception.

The Supreme Court of Florida, in Ensor v. State, 403 So.2d 349 (Fla.1981), stated that:
The term 'on or about the person' means physically on the person or readily accessible to him.

790.25 states that the exception does not authorize concealed carry, which is "on or about". In the case of the holster in question, it is actually touching your leg, or the strap is touching your body when you sit in the seat.

So if you ask me, I'd say no, that holster would not be acceptable if you had it in the drivers seat.

[SW.FLA.glocker]

Your post makes a lot of sense. I would think one could argue however, that when you have a gun in a car it is pretty much always going to be easy to access...lol. It is such a confined space.

i thought the holster had a snap by the way. I think you are right about this one though.

[noway]

One other thing I want to bring up is the fact that the reference law say firearms which covers handgun and rifle and shotgun or anything that's a firearm. but theirs a case that prove that you don't need to "encase" a weapon or keep it conceal.


A person was stopped with a plain in view weapon ( shotgun iirc ) and it was unloaded. The courts rule it was okay since the gun was not immediately accessible. Nor could be use within the confines of a interior of a car or truck in this case iirc.

btw: before anybody get any bright ideas, I i wouldn't try my luck with a unloaded gun in that scenario

And if you have lexus or westlaw, you can search the courts findings on the matter.

[Stretchman]

790.001
(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

This is interpretive.

The Police constantly state the three step rule.

In 790.001 - 17, it states:

"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked" and then the first semi colon is added.

From Wikpedia:
In English, the semicolon has two main purposes:

It binds two sentences more closely than they would be if separated by a full stop/period. It often replaces a conjunction such as and or but. Writers might consider this appropriate where they are trying to indicate a close relationship between two sentences, or a 'run-on' in meaning from one to the next; they do not want the connection to be broken by the abrupt use of a full stop.

It is used as a stronger division than a comma, or a "super comma" to make meaning clear in a sentence where commas are already being used for other purposes. A common example of this use is to separate the items of a list when some of the items themselves contain commas.

So, this may be interpreted as:

(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, "and" snapped in a holster;

"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, "and" in a gun case, whether or not locked;

"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, "and" in a zippered gun case;

or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

790.001
(16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.

790.25
(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;

(m) A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;

When the law is interpreted, it isn't done so piecemeal, but as a whole. So, 790.001 doesn't necessarily allow for you to ignore 790.25, because it doesn't specifically state that it supercedes it.

So, here's the real breakdown. Your weapon should be in a holster or gun rug, or some other kind of casement, and in a glove box, or center console. It doesn't have to be locked, but should not be available for immediate use, as if it were being carried on your person.

It can be in a gun box, sitting on the seat, if it is unloaded, and being transported for some legal usage, such as to and from the gun shop.

Any other way you choose to carry it, and officer discretion as to the safety and availability of the firearm for immediate usage. So, if it is in a holster, and between the seat, it is readily available, and can be construed to be illegal. Same weapon in the console or glove box is fine.

Liberally construed to favor lawful usage. That means that the officers on scene have some latitude in deciding whether or not the weapon is in violation. Let's say, for safety reasons, the weapon should be encased. In a holster is fine, but it should be a retention holster, whether or not it is snapped, or can be. In other words, a holster designed to hold the weapon, whether it needs to use snaps or not in order to hold it securely. Or in a gun rug or case. Think safety.

790.25
(5) ... Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use.

Note it says other than a handgun.

The point being, the State says it's fine to carry a handgun in your car. It should be in a holster or gun case, and either in your glove box or center console. It is open to interpretation. Some people don't have glove boxes or center consoles. Is it there for legal defensive pourposes, or is it btween the seat and ready for immediate draw and usage? That's what the police will look at. In a box, in plain view? It should be unloaded. There for defensive purposes? In a holster in the glove box or console.

Florida writes their laws weird. But the intent is obvious. If the cops pull you over, and have no doubt that you are an upstanding law abiding citizen, and have that gun between the seats for lawful defensive purposes, they may not hassle you. But it should be in the glove box or console. If they think that you have the weapon there because you want to whip it out on someone, you're going down. It's just as accesible as if it were on your person, and you're probably going to be arrested.

When the Police come in here and tell you directly that there's a 3 step rule, it's what they mean. Maybe you can find a lawyer who will get you off. But odds are there'll be a prosecutor that can charge you under a different statute, and without a direct statement saying that this supercedes that, then you will be found guilty. Ask me how I know.

The real point is safety. A holstered weapon won't normally ND. In the console or glove box means you can't just whip it out, and it isnt't sliding all over the floor of the vehicle. Don't take chances and possiblyu lose your right to have a firearm at all.

Sorry for being so long winded. But in Florida, it takes years to understand the law, much less to be able to effectively represent someone in court. If it means something other than what the cops say it does, they would tell you.

[Magnus DUX]

Is there anyone who got stopped by LEO and had a gun in his vehicle without CWL ?Would be interesting story.
I do not believe they read all these laws.Some maybe.

[Six Feet Under]

Reading this thread gave me the idea to attach a cheap holster (Fobus, etc.) to the inside of my glovebox, most likely the door, to carry a pistol in my vehicle. Once I turn 18, of course, which is only a couple months away.

Good idea or no? It's securely encased so there's no chance of an AD, and also out of sight for the average person, plus it's not within reach of me normally.

[passive101]

I've just been putting my glock 26 loaded into my empty glove box.

This is legal correct? The law says locked or unlocked.

[Gmountain]

Originally posted by passive101
I've just been putting my glock 26 loaded into my empty glove box.

This is legal correct? The law says locked or unlocked.

Perfectly legal.

[passive101]

Thank you Gmountain. Though I am now keeping it in my glove box in a CTAC holster for right now for safety and letting me keep one in the chamber.

[staticfiend]

When I went to the range last Friday I put my gun in the factory case, then put it in a back pack and then put it in the trunk of my car. I think I was law abiding? :-P I go for my CWP test tonight!

[TM1]

I think the best advice and resource for anyone carrying a handgun in Florida is Gutmacher's book. Read it once and periodically as a refresher and keep a copy in your vehicle so that you can 'educate' any leos that are lacking in their knowledge of the law, especially that mythical 3 step 'rule'

[TM1]

Originally Posted by staticfiend

When I went to the range last Friday I put my gun in the factory case, then put it in a back pack and then put it in the trunk of my car. I think I was law abiding? :-P I go for my CWP test tonight!

Loaded in the glove box would have been fine.

[Znyper]

Everyone with a CWP in FL should have this book - http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/

It explains all of the laws, etc. in easy to understand verbage.

Whether you have a CWP or not it say's this about "securely encased" -

- in a snapped holster - anywhere - loaded or unloaded
- in a closed console - loaded or unloaded
- in a closed glove compartment - loaded or unloaded
- in a zippered gun case - loaded or unloaded
- in any other type of closed container which the gun cannot be fired until withdrawn - loaded or unloaded

[brboyer]

Originally Posted by Gmountain

I would agree with that. If you have a CCW, you, of course, can keep it anywhere.

Without a CCW, it would have to be out of the ordinary sight of another and either sanpped in a holster, or in the glove box, or zippped in a case, or in a box with a lid. Now, it could be snapped in a holster and stuck in the door pocket. That would be fine. It could also be snapped in a holster and on the passenger seat, covered by a newspaper. Or, depending on your vehicle, snapped in a holster and laying on the passenger seat. You could have it snapped in a holster and lay it on the floor.

As long as it meets one of the definitions of securely encased, and it is not visible to the average person, you are okay.

No requirement for it to be concealed. In a snapped holster lying on the passenger seat is OK.

The statute says securely encased.......... not securely encased and hidden from view:

790.001(17) "Securely encased" means
in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; -OR-
snapped in a holster; -OR-
in a gun case, whether or not locked; -OR-
in a zippered gun case; -OR-
or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

790.25 (3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 (Open Carry) and 790.06 (Concelaed Carry) do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:
. . .
(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;
. . .
--------------------------------------------------
Section 5, confuses the situation by indicating that it has to be concealed:
790.25(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

[wolf4000]

Well after doing my extensive research on Fl gun laws I purchased my G19 a few weeks ago. Then I applied for my ccw license over the weekend at the Ft Lauderdale Gun show. The instructor clearly stated in the class that a firearm must be in a its own case in the trunk of the car. Not in the glove box, or in the center console. Did the law change or is the instructor, I hate to say it "wrong"

[Znyper]

Originally Posted by wolf4000

Well after doing my extensive research on Fl gun laws I purchased my G19 a few weeks ago. Then I applied for my ccw license over the weekend at the Ft Lauderdale Gun show. The instructor clearly stated in the class that a firearm must be in a its own case in the trunk of the car. Not in the glove box, or in the center console. Did the law change or is the instructor, I hate to say it "wrong"

Your instructor was wrong. See my above post.

[BUNIT9685]

I took my CHP class last week and the instructors kept saying you had to have it in a box or snapped holster and in the glove box or trunk and that you couldnt have it in the center console at all (without CHP).

Kinda made me mad having to sit there and listen to them give out incorrect info. When I bought my glock there a guy was asking about glock hi cap mags and the clerk (one of the instructors) was saying they didnt make any...

[5pointstar]

Whatever you guys choose to do remember its always better to just put in for the permit. The laws are always changing or being amended, the last thing you want is to get caught up in a legal battle.

[CableRouter]

The instructors mentioned are probably just erring on the side of caution. Is it legal to have a loaded pistol sitting in a snapped holster in your center console without CCW? Certainly.

Is there a set of circumstances in which a traffic stop could escalate into a trip to jail while the legality of the carry gets sorted out? Certainly. Sure, the cop might unclear about the law, or even deliberately misapplying it; but the standard procedure is going to be to cart you off to jail while a judge and/or a prosecuting attorney determine the legal niceties.

Do you really want to spend even a single night in jail, much less a whole weekend and get dragged through a he said/I said court situation where the presumption is that the police officer is in the right? Being unfair and unjust won't prevent it from happening.

Why even risk the possibility when avoiding it is as simple as filling out the paperwork, tossing in a check for a month or two worth of range fees and ammo and getting your CCW. It's good for 7 years, if you can't afford to be spending 50 cents a week on your permit, you also won't be affording the training and practice needed to ensure the proficiency you're going to wish you had if you ever really need that firearm to defend your life.

[Hyksos]

When I took my Concealed Weapons class, it was taught by a sergeant of the Palm Beach Gardens Police Department who worked at the gun store as a side job. He was very clear about the law, and there was not any of the confusion that some of you people seemed to have.

We were instructed what securely encased was, how it applied, and he even told us the universal hand symbol for "I have a concealed weapon" when police approach your car (created by the NRA some years ago he said) so that the officer can know you are armed, and most likely not going to blow his head off.

Granted the sergeant said that not all police will know the hand sign, but it doesn't hurt to try. Either way there was no talk of this 3 step rule, or any such 'it has to be in the trunk' nonsense.

[21Glocker]

I am waiting on my CCW to come in the mail, check has been cashed by them, just playing the waiting game. While i wait i am still carrying in the car and am wondering, can i carry in a holster under the seat with one in the chamber? Or is there some sort of law about being able to have it loaded or not?

[brboyer]

Originally Posted by 21Glocker

I am waiting on my CCW to come in the mail, check has been cashed by them, just playing the waiting game. While i wait i am still carrying in the car and am wondering, can i carry in a holster under the seat with one in the chamber? Or is there some sort of law about being able to have it loaded or not?

Loaded, not loaded don't matter...

If the holster has some type of strap, snap or other locking mechanism, you're fine. The statute says "snapped in a holster"...

On the other hand you can toss it in the glove-box or console, sans holster, if you want and you'll be OK.