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Old 01-06-2007, 20:14   #21
Gmountain
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Quote:
Originally posted by SW.FLA.glocker
So we are all in agreement??

A person needs not to be licensed, and can carry in a car in a snapped holster and still be legal.

Next question; can it be concealed or does it need to be in plain view?
It must be concealed. Whether or not you have a CCW, the gun cannot be in plain view.
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Old 01-06-2007, 20:21   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by SW.FLA.glocker
So we are all in agreement??

A person needs not to be licensed, and can carry in a car in a snapped holster and still be legal.

Next question; can it be concealed or does it need to be in plain view?
that's why i originally had 'and' instead of 'or' under the non-cwl section. because after talking to many FL cops, it is understood that a non-cwl holder must have the gun put away. it can neither be concealed (no concealed weapons license) nor can it be out in plain sight. basically the law is written in a 'f'ed up way and can be read more than one way. the way i understand the law may be different than my neighbor and/or the cop that pulls me over. i wrote the reference as a starting point and took notes and suggestions from other members (alot of cops) but am defenitely open to other suggestions. so hopefully a couple of other people well versed in this area can chime in. thanks for opening up a good discussion.
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Old 01-06-2007, 20:22   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gmountain
It must be concealed. Whether or not you have a CCW, the gun cannot be in plain view.
a non-cwl holder can not conceal a weapon. that's what this question is in reference to.

edit: let me clarify, i mean conceal as 'on his person'.
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Old 01-06-2007, 20:30   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by J Crew
a non-cwl holder can not conceal a weapon. that's what this question is in reference to.

edit: let me clarify, i mean conceal as 'on his person'.
I would agree with that. If you have a CCW, you, of course, can keep it anywhere.

Without a CCW, it would have to be out of the ordinary sight of another and either sanpped in a holster, or in the glove box, or zippped in a case, or in a box with a lid. Now, it could be snapped in a holster and stuck in the door pocket. That would be fine. It could also be snapped in a holster and on the passenger seat, covered by a newspaper. Or, depending on your vehicle, snapped in a holster and laying on the passenger seat. You could have it snapped in a holster and lay it on the floor.

As long as it meets one of the definitions of securely encased, and it is not visible to the average person, you are okay.
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Old 01-06-2007, 20:35   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gmountain
I would agree with that. If you have a CCW, you, of course, can keep it anywhere.

Without a CCW, it would have to be out of the ordinary sight of another and either sanpped in a holster, or in the glove box, or zippped in a case, or in a box with a lid. Now, it could be snapped in a holster and stuck in the door pocket. That would be fine. It could also be snapped in a holster and on the passenger seat, covered by a newspaper. Or, depending on your vehicle, snapped in a holster and laying on the passenger seat. You could have it snapped in a holster and lay it on the floor.

As long as it meets one of the definitions of securely encased, and it is not visible to the average person, you are okay.
correct and good examples as well.
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Old 01-06-2007, 20:45   #26
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Old 01-06-2007, 20:57   #27
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If you have a CCW, you can do anything you want with the weapon, as long as it is out of plain view. No holster is required, nor is it required to be securely encased.

You can put it in your lap, in your pants, in a pocket, in the glove box, in your holster, anything you want to do.
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Old 01-06-2007, 21:26   #28
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Great!!!!!!

Now that we have established all of these details in a more civilized manner than that "other" thread of a similar nature let me pose one more question.

Shouldn't this holster http://www.desantisholster.com/n92.html

be ok to use for a non CWP holder? It was argued in another thread that this holster would be considered concealed. I think that thread was locked ue to people not being able to "just get along"...lol. According to what everyone here agrees upon, the holster/weapon NEEDS to be concealed, or at least out of plain sight. So, once again, shouldn't this holster be OK for CWP and non CWP alike?
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Old 01-06-2007, 22:22   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by SW.FLA.glocker
Great!!!!!!

Now that we have established all of these details in a more civilized manner than that "other" thread of a similar nature let me pose one more question.

Shouldn't this holster http://www.desantisholster.com/n92.html

be ok to use for a non CWP holder? It was argued in another thread that this holster would be considered concealed. I think that thread was locked ue to people not being able to "just get along"...lol. According to what everyone here agrees upon, the holster/weapon NEEDS to be concealed, or at least out of plain sight. So, once again, shouldn't this holster be OK for CWP and non CWP alike?
For some reason the link doesn't work.

For a CCW, it is fine, of course. For a non CCW, I don't see the snapped thumb break. The statute says snapped.

I also think it would be construed as on or about the person, which takes it out of the private conveyance exception.

The Supreme Court of Florida, in Ensor v. State, 403 So.2d 349 (Fla.1981), stated that:
The term 'on or about the person' means physically on the person or readily accessible to him.

790.25 states that the exception does not authorize concealed carry, which is "on or about". In the case of the holster in question, it is actually touching your leg, or the strap is touching your body when you sit in the seat.

So if you ask me, I'd say no, that holster would not be acceptable if you had it in the drivers seat.
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Old 01-06-2007, 22:49   #30
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Your post makes a lot of sense. I would think one could argue however, that when you have a gun in a car it is pretty much always going to be easy to access...lol. It is such a confined space.

i thought the holster had a snap by the way. I think you are right about this one though.
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Old 01-06-2007, 23:16   #31
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One other thing I want to bring up is the fact that the reference law say firearms which covers handgun and rifle and shotgun or anything that's a firearm. but theirs a case that prove that you don't need to "encase" a weapon or keep it conceal.


A person was stopped with a plain in view weapon ( shotgun iirc ) and it was unloaded. The courts rule it was okay since the gun was not immediately accessible. Nor could be use within the confines of a interior of a car or truck in this case iirc.

btw: before anybody get any bright ideas, I i wouldn't try my luck with a unloaded gun in that scenario

And if you have lexus or westlaw, you can search the courts findings on the matter.
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Old 03-12-2007, 01:03   #32
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790.001
(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

This is interpretive.

The Police constantly state the three step rule.

In 790.001 - 17, it states:

"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked" and then the first semi colon is added.

From Wikpedia:
In English, the semicolon has two main purposes:

It binds two sentences more closely than they would be if separated by a full stop/period. It often replaces a conjunction such as and or but. Writers might consider this appropriate where they are trying to indicate a close relationship between two sentences, or a 'run-on' in meaning from one to the next; they do not want the connection to be broken by the abrupt use of a full stop.

It is used as a stronger division than a comma, or a "super comma" to make meaning clear in a sentence where commas are already being used for other purposes. A common example of this use is to separate the items of a list when some of the items themselves contain commas.

So, this may be interpreted as:

(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, "and" snapped in a holster;

"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, "and" in a gun case, whether or not locked;

"Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, "and" in a zippered gun case;

or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.

790.001
(16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.

790.25
(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person's manual possession;

(m) A person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper, concealed or otherwise, from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business;

When the law is interpreted, it isn't done so piecemeal, but as a whole. So, 790.001 doesn't necessarily allow for you to ignore 790.25, because it doesn't specifically state that it supercedes it.

So, here's the real breakdown. Your weapon should be in a holster or gun rug, or some other kind of casement, and in a glove box, or center console. It doesn't have to be locked, but should not be available for immediate use, as if it were being carried on your person.

It can be in a gun box, sitting on the seat, if it is unloaded, and being transported for some legal usage, such as to and from the gun shop.

Any other way you choose to carry it, and officer discretion as to the safety and availability of the firearm for immediate usage. So, if it is in a holster, and between the seat, it is readily available, and can be construed to be illegal. Same weapon in the console or glove box is fine.

Liberally construed to favor lawful usage. That means that the officers on scene have some latitude in deciding whether or not the weapon is in violation. Let's say, for safety reasons, the weapon should be encased. In a holster is fine, but it should be a retention holster, whether or not it is snapped, or can be. In other words, a holster designed to hold the weapon, whether it needs to use snaps or not in order to hold it securely. Or in a gun rug or case. Think safety.

790.25
(5) ... Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use.

Note it says other than a handgun.

The point being, the State says it's fine to carry a handgun in your car. It should be in a holster or gun case, and either in your glove box or center console. It is open to interpretation. Some people don't have glove boxes or center consoles. Is it there for legal defensive pourposes, or is it btween the seat and ready for immediate draw and usage? That's what the police will look at. In a box, in plain view? It should be unloaded. There for defensive purposes? In a holster in the glove box or console.

Florida writes their laws weird. But the intent is obvious. If the cops pull you over, and have no doubt that you are an upstanding law abiding citizen, and have that gun between the seats for lawful defensive purposes, they may not hassle you. But it should be in the glove box or console. If they think that you have the weapon there because you want to whip it out on someone, you're going down. It's just as accesible as if it were on your person, and you're probably going to be arrested.

When the Police come in here and tell you directly that there's a 3 step rule, it's what they mean. Maybe you can find a lawyer who will get you off. But odds are there'll be a prosecutor that can charge you under a different statute, and without a direct statement saying that this supercedes that, then you will be found guilty. Ask me how I know.

The real point is safety. A holstered weapon won't normally ND. In the console or glove box means you can't just whip it out, and it isnt't sliding all over the floor of the vehicle. Don't take chances and possiblyu lose your right to have a firearm at all.

Sorry for being so long winded. But in Florida, it takes years to understand the law, much less to be able to effectively represent someone in court. If it means something other than what the cops say it does, they would tell you.
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Old 03-27-2007, 13:11   #33
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Is there anyone who got stopped by LEO and had a gun in his vehicle without CWL ?Would be interesting story.
I do not believe they read all these laws.Some maybe.

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Old 06-24-2007, 01:12   #34
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Reading this thread gave me the idea to attach a cheap holster (Fobus, etc.) to the inside of my glovebox, most likely the door, to carry a pistol in my vehicle. Once I turn 18, of course, which is only a couple months away.

Good idea or no? It's securely encased so there's no chance of an AD, and also out of sight for the average person, plus it's not within reach of me normally.
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Old 07-15-2007, 04:17   #35
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I've just been putting my glock 26 loaded into my empty glove box.

This is legal correct? The law says locked or unlocked.
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Old 07-28-2007, 05:53   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by passive101
I've just been putting my glock 26 loaded into my empty glove box.

This is legal correct? The law says locked or unlocked.
Perfectly legal.
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Old 07-28-2007, 10:27   #37
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Thank you Gmountain. Though I am now keeping it in my glove box in a CTAC holster for right now for safety and letting me keep one in the chamber.
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Old 11-20-2007, 09:55   #38
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When I went to the range last Friday I put my gun in the factory case, then put it in a back pack and then put it in the trunk of my car. I think I was law abiding? :-P I go for my CWP test tonight!
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Old 11-29-2007, 18:23   #39
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I think the best advice and resource for anyone carrying a handgun in Florida is Gutmacher's book. Read it once and periodically as a refresher and keep a copy in your vehicle so that you can 'educate' any leos that are lacking in their knowledge of the law, especially that mythical 3 step 'rule'
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Old 11-29-2007, 18:25   #40
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When I went to the range last Friday I put my gun in the factory case, then put it in a back pack and then put it in the trunk of my car. I think I was law abiding? :-P I go for my CWP test tonight!

Loaded in the glove box would have been fine.
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