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Old 03-02-2007, 06:37   #1
25074
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Freemasonry & Religion

I have been a Mason for about 5 years now.

The wife and I are looking into joining a new church. Apparently they have an issue with members of a "Social Secret Society" being on their church board.

Now, I don't want o be on the church board, but I asked the Pastor in a meeting that My wife and I had yesterday about me being a Mason and his tone changed and made a comment that due to the oath that I took, (and he quoted the penalty of the first degree) that there might be a problem.

I tried to explain that the penalty is of ancient origin and symbolic only, and he said that he has some sort of book that he wants me to look at(that he could not find at the time) that might give me an idea of the problems with Freemasonty and religion.

So, this has been bothering me, I think I need to be very confident of my responces annd I cannot be too defensive either.

Has anyone had issues like this and how do you odeal with them?

I kind of regret even telling them that I am a Mason, but I don't want to lie to a the church.

Thanks
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Old 03-02-2007, 07:45   #2
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at my gym there a Priest that works out there,
i asked him his stance on FM,
He basically stated that the Church did not like FM because of the secret nature, but unfortunately he new nothing about FM.

I guess you could try and educate your Pastor on what FM actually is,
you could also point out all the charity the Lodges does,
not what people see and read on the internet and in books.
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Old 03-02-2007, 20:53   #3
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I find it interesting that churches will frown on parishioners being FM's! Doesn't that fall under the "Don't judge, lest ye be judged" thing...or something like that?

Seems kind of hypocritical & conditional to me and seems to defeat the purpose of what 'going to church' is all about? I stay away from church & religion for that very reason. I believe in God/Higher Power, but in my experience God's love is unconditional no matter what group one belongs too!

<-- Agnostic. Leaves me free to explore ALL of my options!

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Old 03-02-2007, 22:13   #4
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I've never encountered this, but I don't think I'd have a problem finding a new church if was told to pick one or the other. Not suggesting that this would be the right approach for you, just my first reaction to the idea.

I would make sure he explains and understands what he is refering to as the oath you took, although it sounds like you've tried that. I've always been confused by a negative reaction from a church/church member to FM, when so many of the goals are common. Charity, good will towards others, upright existence among your fellow men/women. Are the churches worried about competition?

I find often it's like guns. Dislike is fostered by a misunderstanding or ignorance of the issue.
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Old 03-07-2007, 23:35   #5
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Here is a tidbit that I picked up that may help clear this up for you or maybe it will just stir the pot...

Albert Pike a 33 degree FM wrote a book called "Morals and Dogmas"...

From what I understand only 30 degree and above FM's are given an original unaltered copy of the book which has to be returned to the lodge after their death...

In this book he wrote that FM's worship the fallen angel...

I think Christian's may have a problem with that...
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:11   #6
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He did tell me that he has a book that he wanted me to look at that he got his information from.

Now that I think about it, I think it was this book that Albert Pike wrote.

Anyone else read this book?

I guess I need to look at it and see what it's all about.

Thanks Cam Cooke for the title, I'll check it out.
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Old 03-08-2007, 19:34   #7
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I just read your first entry again.

Let me clear something up for you...

Nothing to do with Freemason's is only symbolic...
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Old 03-10-2007, 13:58   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam Cooke
Here is a tidbit that I picked up that may help clear this up for you or maybe it will just stir the pot...

Albert Pike a 33 degree FM wrote a book called "Morals and Dogmas"...

From what I understand only 30 degree and above FM's are given an original unaltered copy of the book which has to be returned to the lodge after their death...

In this book he wrote that FM's worship the fallen angel...

I think Christian's may have a problem with that...
Please keep the conspiracy theories to a minimum here. This is a clubhouse forum. My Dad is a 33rd degree Mason, I feel VERY ,VERY confident in saying that he believes in and Worships G-D not any "fallen angel".

B, and others. It's always been my understanding that the reason Catholics didn't allow their members to join is because a Catholic isn't supposed to keep ANY secrets from his Priest. Thus, they have their OWN fraternal organization , The Knights of Columbus, as an alternative to the Masons.
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Old 03-10-2007, 14:34   #9
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Sorry that you think it is a conspiracy theory but unfortunately it is not...

Go over to your dad's place and read his book "Morals and Dogmas" as a 33 Degree FM he will have an original copy...

Don't quote me on this but if I remember right it is about page 880 that you will find this info... OOOPS wrong page...

I am always amazed how the first line of defense is to discredit the truth stated by claiming conspiracy theories...


edit to add...

WOW was I off on the page...

start with page 817 then 820 then 839 then back to page 97 and then a huge jump up to page 2020... this may clear up a few things...

now read pages 213-214

pages 275/741/744 gives info on the religion of the FM's

Why is the Bible on Alters in lodges?

page 11

page 819 gives some interesting reading and pages 104-105

Now the big page that answers the Question on who is the god of the FM's? M&D's pages 321/102/740 clears this up very well...

Also look for a book titled "The Secret Doctorine" by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky... a 33 Degree FM

Volume 1 pages 215/216/220/245/255/533

Volume 11 pages 171/225/255

Doesn't get much clearer than getting it from the horses mouth...

Last edited by Cam Cooke; 03-10-2007 at 18:25..
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Old 03-19-2007, 17:52   #10
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To reply to the original question in this thread, I have found that the easiest way to open a discusion with someone who is unaware of what freemasonry is about is to ask if the person is aware of the shriners and their hospidals, and then tell them that every shriner has to first be a mason.
In my experiances this has given most people a pause and let to a more open minded conversation.
My favorite one was with a married couple that my wife and I are friends with, they are very devout in their beliefs and the pastor of the church they are involved with has a dark view on freemasonry. We attended a family gathering with them and the guy noticed my ring and we started a conversation. I had noticed that there were 3 gentlemen here that were wearing their Shriner rings. when I saw the direction the conversation was going I asked him if he thought these gentlemen were good christian men. He of course replied they were, then I explained the connection. After that we were able to continue with the disscusion and he was at least listening rather than defending his posision.
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Old 03-19-2007, 18:48   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam Cooke
Sorry that you think it is a conspiracy theory but unfortunately it is not...

Go over to your dad's place and read his book "Morals and Dogmas" as a 33 Degree FM he will have an original copy...

Don't quote me on this but if I remember right it is about page 880 that you will find this info... OOOPS wrong page...

I am always amazed how the first line of defense is to discredit the truth stated by claiming conspiracy theories...


edit to add...

WOW was I off on the page...

start with page 817 then 820 then 839 then back to page 97 and then a huge jump up to page 2020... this may clear up a few things...

now read pages 213-214

pages 275/741/744 gives info on the religion of the FM's

Why is the Bible on Alters in lodges?

page 11

page 819 gives some interesting reading and pages 104-105

Now the big page that answers the Question on who is the god of the FM's? M&D's pages 321/102/740 clears this up very well...

Also look for a book titled "The Secret Doctorine" by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky... a 33 Degree FM

Volume 1 pages 215/216/220/245/255/533

Volume 11 pages 171/225/255

Doesn't get much clearer than getting it from the horses mouth...
What's your agenda here? To state that Freemasons somehow promote Satanism or devil-worship at its highest levels? I think it's clear that thousands of good men throughout history would not keep such a secret, especially considering that many of them are very devout Christians or Jews.

Some things are left to common sense.


That said, I look forward to joining Freemasonry soon.
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Old 03-19-2007, 18:54   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam Cooke
Also look for a book titled "The Secret Doctorine" by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky... a 33 Degree FM
Funny. Women cannot be Freemasons. And this should solve any question to your ridiculous copy pasted information.

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/...vatsky_hp.html
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Old 03-19-2007, 19:29   #13
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Ah yes the second most common way to discredit info...

Sorry there but you are only showing that you do not understand the organization or how it works...

Women can and are freemason's they are given a male title though when they are in the lodge.

My agenda is/was to answer a question truthfully, not with heresay...

I could have written out the quotes from the pages that I listed but I feel that this kind of information should not be written on an open forum.

I have left it up to the individual asking the question that have access to the books to find out for themselves...
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Old 03-19-2007, 19:42   #14
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If your quotes are so shocking and are really from this book, just scan the appropriate pages and e-mail them to those who are curious about the information you are attempting to provide.

The way you are going about it is smoke and mirrors and makes you seem less than credible.
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Old 03-19-2007, 19:54   #15
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I don't need too...

The people that have access to the books can find the information for themselves and I have no intent on sharing the info to those that don't have access.
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Old 03-20-2007, 13:09   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mrs. VR
B, and others. It's always been my understanding that the reason Catholics didn't allow their members to join is because a Catholic isn't supposed to keep ANY secrets from his Priest. Thus, they have their OWN fraternal organization , The Knights of Columbus, as an alternative to the Masons.
Huh. I've always wondered what the Knights of Columbus were! Growing up in Ohio, I always thought they had something to do with the City of Columbus when I was a kid...then again, I used to think Cleveland was the capital of Ohio until I was in about the 7th grade!

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Old 03-20-2007, 14:46   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cam Cooke
Women can and are freemason's they are given a male title though when they are in the lodge.

My agenda is/was to answer a question truthfully, not with heresay...

To be eligible for membership in the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons of British Columbia and Yukon an applicant must satisfy the following qualifications:

4. "Shall be a man, of the full age of 21 years, free born and capable of supporting himself and those dependent upon him."

- http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/membership.html


Still wondering about your real intentions.
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Old 03-20-2007, 16:29   #18
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No need to keep wondering...

I don't have any kind of hidden agenda's, during my retirement I have had the opportunity to study secret societies and stumbled onto far more info then I cared to find out...

I have to say it is amazing what is actually going on though...

With that said I am ending my subscription to this thread and will be heading back to the 10 Ring...
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Old 04-15-2007, 19:14   #19
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Wow. I'm not sure why this guy felt he needed to stir up something but it was certainly fun to read.

I was taught early on when I became a Freemason that sometimes it's better to let people believe what they want to believe when they take that guy's approach.

I find it fun that one person's book is all it takes for some people to completely discredit an organization or individual. There are tell-all books about everything from Catholics to Buddhists, Politicians to Truck Drivers. I don't judge any of them based on a couple of websites and books.
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Old 04-19-2007, 22:03   #20
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Clearly, all that satan and fallen angel worship has helped promote over a million dollars a day in charitable contributions as a "facade."

Oh, and for your Albert Pike quotes:

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/...misquotes.html
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:43   #21
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Interesting to say the least!

Difference as night and day.

Ed
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:57   #22
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cam cook ARE YOU A MASON?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cam Cooke
[B]I don't need too...
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Old 05-16-2007, 13:58   #23
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I'll be back with refutations. I know we're not supposed to argue, but with crap this blatant someone has to shut him down.
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