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Old 04-23-2007, 13:16   #1
FThorn
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Too popular. ACLU Sues over Indiana's In GOD we Trust (OPTIONAL) license plates

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...OCAL/704230439

A legal complaint filed Monday challenges the constitutionality of the year-old law that created the "In God We Trust" specialty license plate, saying its supporters receive preferential treatment not available to supporters of other specialty plates.

The lawsuit filed in Marion Superior Court in Indianapolis claims motorists who request the "In God We Trust" plates receive preferential treatment because they do not have to pay a $15 administrative fee that the Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicles collects. The administrative fees are added to other fees whose proceeds promote the causes of the other specialty plates.

The plaintiff bringing the case, Mark Studler, said he pays an additional $40 for one of the popular environmental plates depicting an eagle above the word "Environment." Of the total fee, $25 goes to a state trust to purchase land set aside for conservation or recreational purposes and the remaining $15 is for the administration fee.
The 2006 law establishing the "In God We Trust" plate waives the administrative fee.

"Therefore, those who obtain an 'In God We Trust' license plate are afforded the opportunity to make an affirmative statement through display of the plate without any additional cost while Mr. Studler must pay additional fees for his environmental license plate," the complaint said.
Studler is being represented by the Indiana branch of the American Civil Liberties Union.
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Old 04-23-2007, 14:06   #2
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I'm actually in agreement with the complaint. I also think that state tax money should not be spent on something that's clearly not a separation of church and state. Now if some Indiana religious group prompted creation of the plate similar to university plates, and the "administration fee" was to pay for the cost of producing the plates like every other specialty plate, I would be okay with that.

Besides, now all the mopes get them thinking that they won't get pulled over. Might as well be a red flag......
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Old 04-23-2007, 14:49   #3
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Why do you assert that people think they won't get pulled over? Where did that originate from? First I've heard of it. Is is something you thought up or was there a source?
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Old 04-23-2007, 16:05   #4
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Equality is the key here. The 15 dollar fee should apply to everyone.
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Old 04-23-2007, 16:50   #5
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To the best of my knowledge, the Indiana BMV is NOT the United States Congress;

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

But, I'm just a citizen who can read what the Constitution says, so what do I know??
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Old 04-23-2007, 20:39   #6
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Private groups get money for custom plates (IU, Purdue, etc.). The God plates do not donate money.

Also, "separation of church and state" is not in our Constitution or Amendments. Our government is prohibited from forcing religion on anyone (freedom). Somehow, over the last half century, the

"freedom from religious persecution"
has evolved to a frenzied
"persecution of religion",

looking to remove all traces from our government. Anyone reading early documents would see plenty of references to God, so total eradication was clearly not our Founding Father's goal.

No one is forced to display the plates. Choice and freedom are still alive.

The ACLU is a leach sucking money out of our state for frivolous nonsense like this. No one is being harmed by the God plates. Please take any ACLU friends you may have and try to get them to defend the Second Amendment... oh, wait... that isn't one that they care about!
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Old 04-23-2007, 21:23   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by sjstill
To the best of my knowledge, the Indiana BMV is NOT the United States Congress;

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

But, I'm just a citizen who can read what the Constitution says, so what do I know??
The 14th Amendment applies the other parts of the constitution to the states, such as the 5th Amendment rights that we all have. Until the 14th was passed, those rights were only federally applied. This is just FYI... I'm a political Science major, and constitutional law is my thing at the moment For more info, I can post some Supreme Court rulings on this very subject if anyone is interested....
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Old 04-24-2007, 05:57   #8
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Registration and licensing of cars and trucks is no different than the registration and licensing of "guns".
Close every branch-Fire every loafer(employee)- Throw the "plates" in the trash.
Let freedom ring!
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Old 04-24-2007, 07:57   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rikki
Registration and licensing of cars and trucks is no different than the registration and licensing of "guns".
Close every branch-Fire every loafer(employee)- Throw the "plates" in the trash.
Let freedom ring!
Uh, I may be missing something but I don't see driving or automobiles anywhere in The Bill of Rights.
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:34   #10
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yeah... the car was a little after the Founders' time!!
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Old 04-24-2007, 16:17   #11
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As for the people getting stopped: Since these plates came out, an exponentially increasing majority of the vehicles that are being stopped by me, my agency and the Metro Police have switched from the standard plate to the "In God We Trust" plate. These cars would have been stopped either way regardless of the type of plate they have, but it shows that the "bad guys" are getting them (as well as regular joes) to try and avoid detection or sway officer's judgement while determining probable cause for a vehicle stop.
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Old 04-24-2007, 18:29   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by jsx1043
As for the people getting stopped: Since these plates came out, an exponentially increasing majority of the vehicles that are being stopped by me, my agency and the Metro Police have switched from the standard plate to the "In God We Trust" plate. These cars would have been stopped either way regardless of the type of plate they have, but it shows that the "bad guys" are getting them (as well as regular joes) to try and avoid detection or sway officer's judgement while determining probable cause for a vehicle stop.
As long as it isn't working, that is all I care about.

I listened to both sides on the radio this morning from the horse's mouths so to speak. They both make good arguments and they go just as follows.

ACLU:
The plates make a statement. That statement is NOT the problem. The problem is that they are not charged the $15 fee like every other plate that makes a statement. Add the $15 charge and the ACLU will be happy (so they say).

The guy that wrote the law that created them:
They are not charged the $15 fee because 1. They do not give money to anyone other than the general state funds, so no adminstration is needed and no fee required. 2. They are made in much larger batches than any of the other specialty plates and therefore cost less to make than the other ones that require the fee. It is an optional regular plate, not a "specialty plate" and bears a slogan of our country.

Personally I don't really care too much one way or the other. I just want the bare minimum required to keep from being pulled over.
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Last edited by epsylum; 04-24-2007 at 18:32..
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Old 04-24-2007, 18:52   #13
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My question to ACLU is: IF this plate had, say, Snoopy on it. And it didn't cost any more would they had sued?

"That statement is NOT the problem.", Right, and I have a nice bridge for sale in NYC.
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Old 04-24-2007, 19:20   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Emmelman
My question to ACLU is: IF this plate had, say, Snoopy on it. And it didn't cost any more would they had sued?

"That statement is NOT the problem.", Right, and I have a nice bridge for sale in NYC.
Just reporting what they said over and over again. I cannot tell you for a fact that they are lying so that is all I have to go on. I am no fan of the ACLU myself however. I would like for them to take up a few more pro-2a cases if they are what they say they are.
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Old 04-24-2007, 21:20   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Emmelman
My question to ACLU is: IF this plate had, say, Snoopy on it. And it didn't cost any more would they had sued?

"That statement is NOT the problem.", Right, and I have a nice bridge for sale in NYC.
Amen Brother, ahem, or should I say Right On!

If this is what the ICLU has to worry about, then they just proved their uselessness.
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Old 04-24-2007, 21:28   #16
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I don't see anything in the BOR about the registration of firearms, either.
It's just another case of the man trying to shake you down for more coin.
you gotta have a permit to pack heat...
you gotta have a permit to drive a car...
you gotta license the car...
and you're upset about a license plate fee?
There should be no fee.
Back in the '60s there were license plates that said "Indiana- Land of Taxes"...Still true today.
I'm sick of paying and paying and paying incompetent lazyazzed state welfare recipients(state employees) just to drive my car.
they tax the car, tax the plates, tax the gas and oil, tax the tires-
and bitc# Mitch wanted to put in a toll road...My property taxes just went up 25%. My County just put in a 40 buck a year wheel tax.
I'm tired of them just screwing me outa my money.
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Old 04-25-2007, 04:53   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by epsylum
Just reporting what they said over and over again. I cannot tell you for a fact that they are lying so that is all I have to go on. I am no fan of the ACLU myself however. I would like for them to take up a few more pro-2a cases if they are what they say they are.
I was just pointing the hypocrisy of the ACLU. Don't for a minute think it is not about the content of the plate.
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Old 04-25-2007, 05:37   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Emmelman
I was just pointing the hypocrisy of the ACLU. Don't for a minute think it is not about the content of the plate.
+1
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Old 04-25-2007, 09:03   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by R. Emmelman
I was just pointing the hypocrisy of the ACLU. Don't for a minute think it is not about the content of the plate.
Just to play devil's advocate, you only stated a hypothetical. They have protected Christian groups rights on campuses before. Again I am not a fan of theirs, just there is no evidence right now to prove that they are lying.
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:20   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by epsylum
Just to play devil's advocate, you only stated a hypothetical. They have protected Christian groups rights on campuses before. Again I am not a fan of theirs, just there is no evidence right now to prove that they are lying.
OK, here is your proof. Where is the ACLU suit against these plates?

From www.in.gov/bmv


The special recognition license plate program allows motorists to support Indiana-based universities, colleges, military personnel, and various organizations.

Hoosiers who purchase special recognition license plates should expect to pay the following fees:

Group fees determined by the organization sponsoring the license plate;
Administrative fee of $15, except "Support Our Troops," Pearl Harbor Survivor and Ex-Prisoner of War plates;
Registration charges determined by the year and make of the vehicle and the customer's county of residence. For more information, please view our Registration Fees page.
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