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Old 05-10-2007, 13:13   #1
Bigsteve
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CC at BYU

What is BYU's policy on CC for students and professors? What about as a guest on campus or a spectator at a BYU sporting event?
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Old 05-10-2007, 15:16   #2
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Not allowed for anyone.

Their ban carries no legal weight since they are classified as a University and not a religious institution. If you do go into a church on campus then you have committed a misdemeanor. The ban on guns in churches does have legal weight to it.

If caught you'll be asked to leave. If you don't leave you'll be arrested for trespassing, as well as disturbing the peace.
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Old 05-10-2007, 16:00   #3
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Concealed means concealed, with BYU.
It's against their Honor Code for students to have guns.
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Old 05-10-2007, 16:38   #4
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So it sounds like since I am not a student and have not signed their honor code then I am ok to CC. But if discovered I will probably be asked to leave and if I do so quickly and nicely then no harm done. I have carried their several times to sporting events without thinking much about it. I was just wondering what their official policy is. Does anyone know where they have their "official policy" written so I can verify this information.

I agree also that concealed is concealed.....until you get pulled over in your car in a BYU Parking lot by a BYU campus police officer and you are required to disclose you have a CFP and are packin. Then you have some explaining to do. Kinda like carrying in a National Park, its all good til you get pulled over for some stupid traffic violation and have to disclose your permit and if you are packing or not (depending on state I guess.... but is the case here in Utah)
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Old 05-10-2007, 17:52   #5
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The BYU cops can't cite you for jack **** for having a gun on campus.

I've never been able to find a written policy, other than the honor code.
For the Stadium of Fire, they specify "no weapons", but I have had no luck finding any such wording on their sports pages.
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:57   #6
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For sure one of the most irritating issues with BYU... Screw 'em, I carry anyways.
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Old 05-11-2007, 16:04   #7
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BYU is a private institution, so they can do whatever they want, unlike the UofU which is a public institution.

I would think since the Church has gone as far as putting an official notice on the BCI page regarding guns and churches, the same would be assumed for BYU.


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Old 05-12-2007, 15:46   #8
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BYU Rules

Their rules claims more authority of law than they really have, but here it is. I don't know who may have access to read this so I have copied the main part here:

"FIREARMS AND WEAPONS PROCEDURES

Brigham Young University prohibits the possession or use of firearms and weapons on property owned or controlled by the university, including residence halls. For the purposes of these procedures, firearms or weapons include any device that can expel a projectile, and/or other dangerous weapons, including knives, explosives, or other items that in their intended use, are capable of inflicting serious injury. Because these items pose a clear risk to the persons and property on the BYU campus, violation of these procedures may result in suspension from the university, prosecution under appropriate city, state, or federal laws, and/or up to a $300 university fine.

No one (personnel, students, or visitors) except law enforcement officers of either the State of Utah or of a federal law enforcement agency shall be permitted to possess or carry firearms or other weapons, concealed or not concealed, with or without a concealed weapon permit, while upon properties owned or controlled by the university without specific written permission from the Chief of University Police.

A student residing in an on-campus residence area who wishes to bring a hunting or target weapon with him/her to school is required to check it, together with associated ammunition, with the management of the residence hall immediately upon arrival at school for storage at university storage facilities and may check it out according to established check-out procedures just prior to its use off campus. Residents must complete a firearms storage request form (forms may be picked up in the Cannon or Morris Centers, Heritage and Wyview/Wymount) prior to storing any weapon or ammunition inside the university storage facilities. FIREARMS, WEAPONS, AMMUNITIONS AND/OR OTHER TYPES OF EXPLOSIVE MATERIALS ARE STRICTLY FORBIDDEN ON UNIVERSITY-OWNED PROPERTY.

Approved off-campus single student housing units: No tenant in an apartment or other living unit occupied by single persons may store, keep, or maintain any firearm in the apartment without the prior written consent of the landlord and all other tenants in the apartment.

Members of the campus ROTC units may possess and/or carry firearms or weapons as part of official ROTC functions, when authorized by the professor of Military Science in strict accordance with existing military regulations. At no time may the firearms or weapons be inside residence halls.

Members of the BYUSA sanctioned shooting club may possess and/or carry firearms and ammunition as part of a regularly scheduled activity as prescribed by the club charter. Safety requirements as dictated by the campus Safety Office shall be strictly observed. At no time may the firearms be inside residence halls.

University Police may carry weapons upon those terms established by departmental regulations."

NOTE: As I understand from something Clark posted about the UTAH law, A "Church" building must be just a Church Building, not multiple use buildings like at BYU. The Campus is NOT just a church, therefore may not be covered by that law, but I wouldn't carry at Church at BYU if you are actually there for Church unless you want to become a test case. That said, the Church letter that went out asked for enforcement of this law to not be done in a harsh manner, so... (Disclaimer... Been a while since I read that letter. It was never read over our Pulpit.)
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Old 05-12-2007, 17:25   #9
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A guy I home taught got detained at BYU. He was going there to pick up his fiancee (a BYU student) on his motorcycle, and inadvertently flashed his gun when he hopped off. He ended up in cuffs, courtesy of a California transplant to BYU PD, until they got things sorted out. He got scuffed and bruised, and as he was not a student and posed no threat, they couldn't take any action, administrative or otherwise.

After that, the police got some sensitivity training regarding concealed carry on campus, and I've carried a few times up there. An ex-girlfriend worked in one of the rat labs where cocaine was stored, and I usually carried if I was going to be in one the labs late at night; it's simply too easy a target for theft to do otherwise.

And like others have said, concealed = concealed.
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Old 06-01-2007, 21:39   #10
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Brigham Young University is not a church, in the legal sense (not a "house of worship"). Their policy holds as much weight as any other private establishment in Utah. That is, they can ask you to leave, if they find out, or trespass you. That's it.

It's another example of their security monopolist philosophy, or, "Good for me, but not for thee".

I say, carry everywhere you will, and be discreet about it.

(And a hearty hello to the goon squad).
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Old 06-02-2007, 01:17   #11
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So do any LDS people here carry at church? It seems to me that would be a pretty vulnerable place if something were to go down, but as was said earlier, LDS is the only church listed on BCI. What would be the consequences if found out?
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Old 06-02-2007, 08:24   #12
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This is Utah law and church policy. In Utah, if anyone in authority were to find out, and call the police, there could be criminal charges. I know saints tin other states that carry, where there is no law to the contrary, and ignore the policy.

As far as Utah, everything is a compromise, a balancing act. Churches are vulnerable places, target rich environments. I won't advocate breaking the law, but I will paraphrase Ted Nugent: the Second Amendment in mt CCW, and the right would still exist, even if the document went away.

Church security once told me that it was fine by them to leave a weapon in your car. Fat lot of good it does when the killing is taking place in the building. I mean, if I can make it to my car, I'm leaving, unless there is a personally compelling reason to bring me back (my kid is still on ptimaty, or my wife is still in Relief Society, for example). Security monopolists never consider the logical conclusion of their policies. Think about the women that may be working at a stake family history library in the evening, or leaving a young women's activity. Criminals, as opportunists, will get around to creating some headlines in this capacity eventually. And there will be much wailing, and gnashing of teeth...
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Old 06-02-2007, 09:14   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by dgsaudio
So do any LDS people here carry at church? It seems to me that would be a pretty vulnerable place if something were to go down, but as was said earlier, LDS is the only church listed on BCI. What would be the consequences if found out?
Check out
Utah Concealed Carry .com

There have been a number of discussions on that topic over there.

Clark Aphosian is even a member there, and provides feedback and information often.
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:53   #14
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I know saints tin other states that carry, where there is no law to the contrary, and ignore the policy.
That's because the "policy" you are referring to only applies to the state of Utah. That's why it was read over the pulpit in Utah, but nowhere else. The "policy" only came about because of that state law which at the time required churches to take a position yea or nae on allowing CCW inside their places of worship.

It's not "policy" as I understand in the true meaning of church policy. More like a position. They ask members to not bring weapons to church meetings and it says something like "carrying concealed weapons is not compatable with church attendance" or something like that, unless in the coure of duty of law enforcement etc. Enforcement is to be handled on the lowest level first, they'll just ask you to leave. I'm sure somebody has the letter and they can post it.

Basically the church requests you do not bring guns to church in Utah. It's not official policy, and it does not apply anywhere other than the state of Utah.

BYU cannot do anything to non-BYU students other than ask them to leave school property. Just like parking fines, they can issue a fine, but you don't have to pay it and they can't do anything about it unless you park there again and they run your plate. Then they may be able to tow you. But the first ticket is absolutely free and totally non-enforceable for non-students!
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Old 06-26-2007, 17:19   #15
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Here's the letter in PDF format.
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Old 07-13-2007, 22:39   #16
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WOW! New to the GT scene. But I will tell you the same thing I tell everyone. I carried a weapon to church in a hot desert. I will carry one here. Concealed is exactly that. There is a lot to be said in: "It is easier to ask for forgiveness then for permission." If an attack happens within the building and the gun is in the car. How is that going to help you? ::sighs:: "Mr. Bad Guy can you hold on I need to go arm myself.."

39 Plus students at VT had CCP. But none of them had the weapon on them. Think.
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Old 07-13-2007, 23:17   #17
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Well said RCM!
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Old 07-16-2007, 17:04   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by RebelCavMedic
39 Plus students at VT had CCP. But none of them had the weapon on them.
How do we know this?
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Old 07-16-2007, 23:09   #19
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Answer to your question is:
It was discussed at length on multiple news networks, not to mention the pro-gun emails that went out. So pretty much if you were paying attention a couple days after the shooting it was discussed. I am sorry that I do not know the exact number.
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