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Old 07-22-2007, 10:11   #21
john_glock_mi
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GTC is listed as being a no CCW facility per the MCRGO web site.
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Old 07-22-2007, 22:12   #22
Tim13
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Quote:
Originally posted by mikedb
If it is an entertainment facility then so is Walmart by the same reasoning. I dont see any chairs.

Yeah, tell that one to the cop when he's disarming you. I'm sure that he'll get a chuckle out of that one.

Tim
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Old 07-24-2007, 16:13   #23
caz223
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Yeah, it's posted on the door that it seats 2500 people or more, and it's a gun show, I wonder who that 2500 people or more sign was for?
That's a nice way of saying NO CCW without invoking rightous indignation and/or conscientious objector behavior.
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Old 07-25-2007, 08:47   #24
coverdog
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Quote:
Originally posted by caz223
Yeah, it's posted on the door that it seats 2500 people or more, and it's a gun show, I wonder who that 2500 people or more sign was for?

It's the law to have capacity posted for the fire marshals and building code. All commercial buildings open to the public for such purposes are required to have the capacity posted.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:32   #25
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Yes, but, it says '2500 people or more' not the exact seating capacity, or what the fire chief rated it at....
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Old 07-25-2007, 20:41   #26
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I could care less if someone wants to challenge the 2500 or more seating capacity of the GTC, and risk their CPL privileges. I think that the average person would know that a 50,000 sqft. building can hold at least 2500 people. You can justify it any way that you want, but I doubt that playing dumb would get you out of trouble if you got busted. Not only that, but they specifically post the seating capacity as greater than 2500 removing any ambiguity, AND, they ask if you have any firearms with you before you enter. I don't think that playing dumb with the 2500 person rule, and then not telling the truth about having a concealed pistol will garner you much sympathy from the police.

Tim
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Old 08-02-2007, 14:57   #27
bigjim
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim13
Yeah, tell that one to the cop when he's disarming you. I'm sure that he'll get a chuckle out of that one.

Tim
Exactly how will the cop, or anyone else, know I have a gun?

There is some precedent on this. Granholm herself ruled against either the Detroit Zoo or the Metroparks, one or the other, who were trying to say they were covered under the entertainment facility exclusion because more than 2500 people could sit on the ground.

It would seem that if the Trade Center could say they were thus excluded, so could a mall or a store the size of Wal-Mart, and this has never been attempted. Some malls have posted themselves as private property, but this is not the same thing.

Attorney General Opinion 7120:

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/da...0s/op10195.htm

Partial text:

A reading of all the words contained in section 5o(1)(f) of the Act supports the conclusion that the Legislature intended that the term "entertainment facility" constitute a structure or building that has a known seating capacity of 2,500 or more persons, or that has signs above each public entrance stating that the facility has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more persons. Since the Legislature has not required that an entertainment facility be totally self-enclosed, such a facility could consist of a bandshell, amphitheater, or similar structure, provided it has the required, known seating capacity noted above or has appropriate signage above each public entrance indicating a seating capacity of 2,500 or more. This reading of section 5o(1)(f) is supported by the legislative history of 2000 HB 4530, enacted as 2000 PA 231. Both House Legislative Analyses, HB 4530, June 8, 1999, and January 4, 2001, state that HB 4530 would "[p]rohibit a licensee from carrying a concealed weapon in certain public places, such as a school, theater, sports arena, library, or hospital." There is no mention in either bill analysis that an outdoor recreation park, by itself, would constitute a gun-free zone. It is appropriate to rely on the legislative history because of the ambiguity in the statutory language. Luttrell v Dep't of Corr, 421 Mich 93, 103; 365 NW2d 74 (1985).
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Old 08-02-2007, 15:41   #28
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The law is seating capacity. Not the venue going and renting 2500+ chairs and say looks we can seat 2500+. If only Cobo Hall and the county/city could get the law straight. That way I would actually go to the autoshow.
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