to cebuboy, re: kaboom ar15

saki1611 · 08-09-2007, 06:48

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=331734

pre, i saw your thread at AR15.com. have u realized already what caused the the kaboom's and find answers to avoid it? it would be a help if you can give us some points to avoid such accident. especially for guys here who are building their own ar15's. thanks!

3kings · 08-09-2007, 07:50

i notice that a lot of ar15'ers commented - Pistol powder in your rifle cartridge.

anyone care to explain?

also isnt M1-S barrels bull barrels?

middybbl · 08-09-2007, 17:38

Sir saki1611,
it happened twice also, during our IPSC rifle clinic..and zeroing one of the shooter rifle kaboom also..but we suspected, that its from the RPAs headstamp ammos..

here some photos.

thanks

isuzu · 08-09-2007, 19:57

Did you purchase the ammo loose or was it in a box? The picture looks more like an explosion happened there. I'm pretty sure that the powder on the ammo that caused that isn't the original one. Parang may halo.

My friend's brother's M16 kaboomed in the late 80's. He purchased ammo in a plastic bag at P0.50 each. When we asked the person who sold him the ammo where he got them, he said they recovered it from an encounter site.

It's a good thing my friend who was zeroing the M16 wasn't hurt.

That is why it has become a policy of the Armed Forces of the Philippines to DESTROY all ammo that were recovered by soldiers in an encounter site.

middybbl · 08-09-2007, 22:23

sir isuzu,
well the ammo used, was given to him by his friends from the force, but all has been mixed up, with the one's from the boxes.. luckily my friend dindt seriously hurt, but he got few scratches to his left forearm and some on his left cheek.. saka buti na lang he's not shooting nose to charging handle.. for sure, his shooting glass basag for the debris.. we let him be injected anti-tetanus after the incedent..

for now... we are building new upper for him.. isang bala.. cost him a lot.. sabi nya.. thats not the reason for him to stop shooting..
he went home.. went back with his M14..

and finished the remaining COFs..

we decide to stop using ammos from the force.. armscor muna siguro..

saki1611 · 08-10-2007, 02:04

middybbl, that's bad! i guess one factor to avoid it, is not to use ammo from an unknown supplier. was that an orig flat top or an a1/a2 conversion? that really cost him much, that's the purpose of the thread to share these bad experiences and help our fellows here to avoid such. thanks for the info pre!

juliuscl · 08-10-2007, 02:44

Another Kaboon had also happened in one of the ranges here in Cebu and they tried to open some of the remaining ammo and instead of gun powder, was a white substance. Don't know if it's C4 or if the rifle primer could actually trigger a C4 exposion.

I did not actually see the white substance but the one who opened it confirmed it was white and full(you cannot feel the powder shaking inside) and also had a WCC marking.

I haven't heard about RPA's ammo here resulting in kaboom until with this one, usuallly its WCC that is why i shake the ammo individually if i am not sure of the source just in case.

cebuboy · 08-10-2007, 03:59

Actually we are not sure yet as to what really caused the kb.
The prime suspect we got is bullet setback.

CatsMeow · 08-10-2007, 04:07

I also experienced a kaboom with a military-issue M16. When I pulled the trigger, kaboom and the M16 was in pieces in my hands. Wrecked the upper receiver and blew the magazine out of the well. Good thing the blast was downwards, only nicked my face. The ammo by all appearances was local military in a 30-round box. A real sharp lesson in using 5.56mm ammo of dubious origin (binigay lang).

Any other tests, apart from what juliuscl suggests (shaking), that we can do to find out if the ammo is of the type intended to kaboom any weapon it is fired in? That is, before it goes and wrecks somebody's pride and joy.

middybbl · 08-10-2007, 16:21

Quote:

Originally posted by saki1611
middybbl, that's bad! i guess one factor to avoid it, is not to use ammo from an unknown supplier. was that an orig flat top or an a1/a2 conversion? that really cost him much, that's the purpose of the thread to share these bad experiences and help our fellows here to avoid such. thanks for the info pre!

sir saki1611, the rifle is BM flat top, w/ BM 1/9 HBAR BBL cut to commando length.. my friend cost him less 50k for that bad ammo.. buti na lang , the ML3 and the BUIS, di tumalsik.. yong first incedent namin, while Zeroing.. the same ang nangyari sa mga pictures ni cebuboy.. exactly the same..

i started also a thread regading to this matter sa Pinoyguns.com..
kasi, dapat we take this seriously, and understand why kaboom.. to avoid another incedent.. sa ar15.com.. surely they will come up good theories on this,..

one theory came up in pinoyguns.com posted by TinSoldier in that forum was:

(quote).. "read in some ammo storage articles in the web that to protect or to ensure long life of our treasured ammo, we must ensure that we protect them (ammo) from drastic swing in storage temperature. we live a highly humid country thats why sometimes our soldiers ammo (or mortar) fails in the field due to incorrect storage (exposure to elements). same thing with 556 ammos if we improperly store it by exposing it the elements we shorten its life span resulting to corrosion of its casing etc. what will happen to the powder inside the casing? siempre the powder inside are composed of chemicals and when exposed to heat or humidity, chances of a chemical reaction or chemical change might alter the formula. in my experience i tried shooting old ammo and new ammo, i notice a different smell of the powder burn (usok) generated (mas mabaho iyung lumang bala). its very difficult to explain but i'll give you an analogy..... if you try to drink an expired medicine you'll get a different effect when drinking a unexpired medicine.... same thing with old ammunition because the medicine and the powder are made of chemicals which change over time.... just my two cents" ...

keep on sharing..

thanks

Wp.22 · 08-11-2007, 01:12

hindi ko alam kung kwentong barbero ito or totoo kwento lang ng pinsan ko that during the vietnam war daw eh nagpakalat ang US government ng mga bala na pag ginamit ng mg VC sa mga nakuha nilang baril ng GI eh kaboom pag ginamit.

baka naman yung mga bala na nabibili lang kung saan saan lalo sa mga province eh para sa mga NPA or ABU Sayaf na kinalat para maputlot nila tapos naunang nakita ng mga civilian at nabenta.

atmarcella · 08-11-2007, 02:36

has this ever happened to a 20 inch barreled rifle?

im thinking the cyclic rate of these short barreled versions are so fast that the bullet has not chambered properly when it was hit by the firing pin....

isuzu · 08-11-2007, 09:27

Quote:

Originally posted by atmarcella
has this ever happened to a 20 inch barreled rifle?

im thinking the cyclic rate of these short barreled versions are so fast that the bullet has not chambered properly when it was hit by the firing pin....

Yes. My friend's brother's M16 was a 20".

isuzu · 08-11-2007, 09:31

Middybbl,

What probably TinSoldier experienced was firing ammo with different LOT NOs. Older ammo may have different powder composition than newer LOTS due to improvement in technology, upgrade in components, etc.

Ammo powder have stabilizers and preservatives added to them, so that deterioration, if any, would be put at a minimum.

middybbl · 08-11-2007, 17:51

Quote:

Originally posted by isuzu
Middybbl,

What probably TinSoldier experienced was firing ammo with different LOT NOs. Older ammo may have different powder composition than newer LOTS due to improvement in technology, upgrade in components, etc.

Ammo powder have stabilizers and preservatives added to them, so that deterioration, if any, would be put at a minimum.

Probably sir izusu..but +1 for sir TInSoldier of pinoyguns for that..

one way to make sure and safe for us users as far as the ammo, what we are doing now is remanufactured them..
pull, check/change the powder, set, crimp... on our spare time.. and shoot without fear of possible KB... at least..

CatsMeow · 08-15-2007, 20:04

I was at Armscor in Jakosalem St., Cebu City, looking for some Armscor revolver parts, and I saw two samples of their 5.56mm ball ammo. The salesman said that he knows of the "demolition rounds" that have destroyed some M16s, but their 5.56mm most assuredly will not kaboom one's M16. Going rate is P25 a pop.

By the way, this may be a bit old and a bit off-topic, but avoid plated lead bullets. Some years ago, I fired 100 rounds of factory .38 Special plated lead through my Taurus 85CH, and when I was through, the rifling had disappeared, covered by lead. No wonder my bullets were keyholing, though they still hit point of aim. Copper brush made no impression at all. It took some work with the point of a nail file before I got all the lead out.