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Old 08-24-2007, 12:34   #1
john_glock_mi
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Getting a Pistol Permit - Whats the Rules for PD's?

I gave a pistol to my dad reciently and what he described sounds fishy. He lives in Westland and according to their police station they are "temporally closed" on Mondays and Tuesdays for giving permits. This temporary closure has been for weeks. I was P.O.'d he had to waste a trip. And then when he finally got the permit they charged $10.

I though police stations had to issue permits during normal business hours 5 days a week and the maximum charge was $5. Can somebody confirm this?
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Old 08-24-2007, 14:50   #2
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You are correct but there really is no way to compel them to follow the law
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:42   #3
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Sure there is. It starts with letters to the police chief, city attorney, and mayor. Then the state attorney general if that doesn't work.
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Old 08-25-2007, 13:43   #4
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Dude,
Search around you'll see that I've been down this road. I've had PD's comply and I've had them thumb their nose. I did the research for the work that SAFR did on this. We had a legislator ask for an AG opinion on our behalf. What we got back was a half baked letter short of an official AG position. Some of these PD's are gun unfriendly and do anything in their power to make it inconvenient. There is no mechanism in the law to make them do what they are supposed to. I know a lot of people are big on Mike Cox and honestly has done a lot of good things, but he let us down on this.

These are my personal thoughts on this they are not any official position for any group that I belong to or serve.
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Old 08-25-2007, 21:41   #5
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The AG's opinion IS the law. If they don't comply, you can take them to court. I know it's expensive, but you'll be SURE to win, and get your money back.

They cannot charge ANY fee, except for a notary fee, which you don't have to use. You can use your own notary, at your bank, or whatever. That's the ONLY fee they can charge.

They also have to do permits and safety inspections during all normal business hours. That's the law.

It's our own fault if we let them get away with anything different! I should say, YOUR fault, since in my town I don't let them get away with it. All my permits, safety inspections, etc. are FREE, as per the state law. And they do it five days a week, all hours of the day, as required by law.
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Doug - The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative. | Ayn Rand - “The Nature of Government,” The Virtue of Selfishness, 108

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Old 08-26-2007, 18:18   #6
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We, as gun owners, can't afford to sit on our butts and do nonthing when we find ourselves getting screwed by gun haters in the government. Especially when they are intentionally breaking the law.

Someone please give me a link to the law or AG opinion on the law pertaining to gun permit hours and the maximum fee being charged.
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Old 08-26-2007, 19:09   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by john_glock_mi

Someone please give me a link to the law or AG opinion on the law pertaining to gun permit hours and the maximum fee being charged.
Here you go: http://www.firearmsalliance.org/AGLetter7-17-06.pdf
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Doug - The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative. | Ayn Rand - “The Nature of Government,” The Virtue of Selfishness, 108

"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
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Old 08-26-2007, 19:51   #8
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This link gives the whole picture
http://www.firearmsalliance.org/AGOp...-06Permits.htm
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Old 08-26-2007, 20:44   #9
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Thanks for the links. It looks like the statutory limit is $10 for them to notarize the permit. I told my dad to go to the bank and get it notarized for free next time.

Regarding the reduced hours, I'm going to wait until the week after Labor Day and call up there on a Monday asking to get a permit and see what kind of answer they give. If there is still this "Temporary Closure" on Mondays and Tuesdays, I'm going to get in contact with the city officials and start there.

Last edited by john_glock_mi; 08-26-2007 at 20:46..
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Old 08-26-2007, 21:09   #10
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Good for you John!
It takes residents in this affected jurisdictions to get involved.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:09   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by douglasd
The AG's opinion IS the law.
Ah, no it's not. While in general most follow it and recognize it as law it is not law untill it goes through the process's....
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:54   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by PDogSniper
Ah, no it's not. While in general most follow it and recognize it as law it is not law untill it goes through the process's....
If it's an official AG opinion, yes, it IS the law until such time as the Legislature makes a new law to clarify it.

One of the AG's functions is to interpret and clarify laws that may not be clear to all.

However, in this case, there now seems to be some question as to whether this was an official "Opinion" or not. The letter came from his office, and it's written just like any other opinion, but it's not listed with the other AG's Opinions on the AG website...so your guess is as good as mine.

However, once I showed it to my local chief, he stopped setting hours and charging fees.

I do believe it would hold up in court as something cities would have to follow, but who has the money to be the test case? Not me.
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Doug - The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative. | Ayn Rand - “The Nature of Government,” The Virtue of Selfishness, 108

"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
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Old 08-30-2007, 12:40   #13
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AG opinions have the power of law until a court rules otherwise or a law is enacted by the legislature.
There is NO penalty for local jurisdictions ignoring the AG opinion.
That's why they do as they please.
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Old 08-30-2007, 14:36   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by centennial
AG opinions have the power of law until a court rules otherwise or a law is enacted by the legislature.
There is NO penalty for local jurisdictions ignoring the AG opinion.
That's why they do as they please.
With all due respect and no harm meant, I need someone to show me where this is written. Because in my readings I've read that AG's opinions are not law (don't ask me to find it)....
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Old 08-30-2007, 14:42   #15
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I didn't say they were law.....I said they had the power of law until successfully challenged in court.

You say, "don't ask me to find it" but you want someone else to do just that.
I'll pass.
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Old 08-30-2007, 15:11   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by centennial
I didn't say they were law.....I said they had the power of law until successfully challenged in court.

You say, "don't ask me to find it" but you want someone else to do just that.
I'll pass.
You made the original statement so it's up to you to prove your point. AG still doesn't have power of law with his opinions but like I said, it's generally followed untill challenged. You made the statement, prove me wrong...
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Old 08-30-2007, 19:42   #17
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Bottom line is, the AG is the highest ranking law enforcement officer in the state...He is the "boss" of all local law enforcement. Just like the Federal AG is the highest ranking LEO in the nation.

Just like the President is the CINC of the military, the AG is the guy in charge of all law enforcement.

His opinions are law until changed by the legislature, but even if they weren't, his opinions are still the rules that his subordinates (all local LEO's) are supposed to abide by.
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Doug - The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative. | Ayn Rand - “The Nature of Government,” The Virtue of Selfishness, 108

"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
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