Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-02-2007, 19:23   #1
snowdog37
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 217
carrying two guns concealed

I've wondered if there is any law prohibiting carrying a second, or what we would call a "backup" gun provided the individual has a valid CCW? From time to time I think I'd like to have my P32 in my pocket along with my G23 inside the belt, but I always stop short of doing it because I don't want to do something that might mess up my next renewal.
__________________
SUPPORT GUN CONTROL...Tight Groups Make Range Sessions FUN !
snowdog37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2007, 20:30   #2
MakeMineaP99
Got SIG?
 
MakeMineaP99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: N. IN
Posts: 3,908
Perfectly legal. However, both pistols must be inspected (registered).
MakeMineaP99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2007, 20:40   #3
john_glock_mi
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
You can carry 20 guns if you want.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2007, 05:36   #4
PDogSniper
Senior Member
 
PDogSniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 10,777
Some would say this is a gray area. When the law first went into effect our license said "Pistols" permit. It now says "Pistol" permit. Oversight...?

It's said that there are some DA's out there that want to make a test case out of this...

All aside, I carry more that one...
__________________
Hair today, gone tomorrow

Member NRA
Member GOA
PDogSniper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2007, 07:32   #5
Hailstorm
Boom Shacka
 
Hailstorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canton Mi
Posts: 5,574


I prefer to carry one good one

My Father carries 3 most times Maybe he needs the extra workout
__________________
Practice Random acts of Kindness
Hailstorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2007, 08:02   #6
doublestack9
Member
 
doublestack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 72
There is no limit in Nebraska. A fellow shooter is an instructor for CCW, and he had a student who asked that question. When he told the student that there is no limit, the student told him he wanted to carry two 1911s in shoulder holsters, and two J frames in ankle holsters. The instructor told him that it was permitted under NE law. I commented that at least he was balanced :-)
doublestack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2007, 12:15   #7
Tito
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally posted by PDogSniper
Some would say this is a gray area. When the law first went into effect our license said "Pistols" permit. It now says "Pistol" permit. Oversight...?
This is correct. It was not an "oversight." The statute says you may carry "a concealed pistol" with your concealed pistol license. The statute was amended by the legislature and all references to "concealed pistols" (plural) were changed to the singular.
__________________
Glock is Borg. Resistance is Futile.
Tito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 00:27   #8
douglasd
CLM Number 164
Charter Lifetime Member
 
douglasd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Shiawassee County, Michigan
Posts: 3,041
The fact that it was changed from "pistols" to "pistol" (which it should have been in the first place, for grammar's sake) does not change the fact that there is no limit in the law.

You can carry as many as you wish...this is NOT a gray area.
And if some idiot DA did try to prosecute, it would NEVER stick.

I wrote to the State Police Reference Desk, and posted the reply somewhere, in which he said that there was no limit.
__________________
Doug - The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative. | Ayn Rand - “The Nature of Government,” The Virtue of Selfishness, 108

"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
douglasd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2007, 01:00   #9
Ender
ComfortablyNumb
 
Ender's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Tactlessville
Posts: 43,756


no limit. i've carried two more than once.
__________________
Ender

"We'll meet again...don't know where, don't know when; but I know we'll meet again, some sunny day."
Ender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2007, 15:13   #10
douglasd
CLM Number 164
Charter Lifetime Member
 
douglasd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Shiawassee County, Michigan
Posts: 3,041
Quote:
Originally posted by Tito
This is correct. It was not an "oversight." The statute says you may carry "a concealed pistol" with your concealed pistol license. The statute was amended by the legislature and all references to "concealed pistols" (plural) were changed to the singular.

In Michigan, you may carry as many pistols as you wish, and we finally have a letter from the AG's office that says so.

This should put to rest the debate once and for all.
__________________
Doug - The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative. | Ayn Rand - “The Nature of Government,” The Virtue of Selfishness, 108

"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
douglasd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2007, 15:16   #11
douglasd
CLM Number 164
Charter Lifetime Member
 
douglasd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Shiawassee County, Michigan
Posts: 3,041
Quote:
Originally posted by douglasd
In Michigan, you may carry as many pistols as you wish, and we finally have a letter from the AG's office that says so.

This should put to rest the debate once and for all.
Oops...I forgot to attach the letter...Ok, THIS should put the debate to rest:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf multiple-gun-carry.pdf (80.8 KB, 142 views)
__________________
Doug - The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative. | Ayn Rand - “The Nature of Government,” The Virtue of Selfishness, 108

"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
douglasd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 06:31   #12
centennial
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 481
That letter doesn't clarify anything because it is not an official AG opinion.
It's not signed by Mike Cox.
It carries no legal weight.
centennial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 08:55   #13
douglasd
CLM Number 164
Charter Lifetime Member
 
douglasd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Shiawassee County, Michigan
Posts: 3,041
Quote:
Originally posted by centennial
That letter doesn't clarify anything because it is not an official AG opinion.
It's not signed by Mike Cox.
It carries no legal weight.
Oh, give me a break! It does come from the AG's office, and from the State of Michigan, Criminal Division. It would certainly get you off if some idiot prosecutor tried to say otherwise. I swear, some people are just plain paranoid.

Apparently you didn't read the whole thing...there is a section in the state statute that says that singular also means plural, for any law on the books, unless it says ONE, and only one, or "limited to one", etc.

And besides, it's not signed by some secretary, it's signed by the Chief Deputy AG, who has the authority to act on his behalf. She could not be giving out opinions that he didn't agree with. I'm sure he has to approve everything going out.

When both the Michigan State Police (I've already posted that letter) and the AG's office say there is no limit, how much more proof do you want?
__________________
Doug - The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative. | Ayn Rand - “The Nature of Government,” The Virtue of Selfishness, 108

"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."

Last edited by douglasd; 10-08-2007 at 09:00..
douglasd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 09:39   #14
zbusdriver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: se michigan
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally posted by douglasd
When both the Michigan State Police (I've already posted that letter) and the AG's office say there is no limit, how much more proof do you want?
douglasd,

thank you for taking the time to clarify this issue.

you'll never convince those with reading comprehension problems. as you and others have already stated: there is NO LIMIT in the michigan CPL statute, and therefore -- THERE IS NO LIMIT!

the two letters you've produced prove your point very well. the law does NOT impose a limit! but reading comprehension and the inability to reason seem to be a big problem here in michigan.
__________________
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.
zbusdriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 13:45   #15
centennial
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 481
I don't need any proof. I carry the number of firearms I feel necessary under any given circumstance. In many instances that is more than one.
My reading comprehension is excellent.
I do know for a fact that there are several county prosecutors that are looking for a case of multiple carry with a ccw to try.
That letter and the opinion of the MSP will not stop them from a prosecution if they find one.
People need to know that.
If you knew me, you would NOT say that I'm paranoid.
centennial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 14:03   #16
RS2
Senior Member
 
RS2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally posted by centennial
If you knew me, you would NOT say that I'm paranoid.
I know you, and I would agree with both what you said and how you said it.

There is a very fine line separating paranoia from preparedness, both on the street and in the courtroom. I find I cross it frequently.
__________________
Ron

G26 / G19 / G30
RS2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 14:41   #17
gsbell
Consumed
 
gsbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nolensville, TN
Posts: 3,605
Quote:
Originally posted by centennial
That letter doesn't clarify anything because it is not an official AG opinion.
It's not signed by Mike Cox.
It carries no legal weight.
+1
__________________
Greg
gsbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 16:35   #18
douglasd
CLM Number 164
Charter Lifetime Member
 
douglasd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Shiawassee County, Michigan
Posts: 3,041
Quote:
Originally posted by centennial

That letter and the opinion of the MSP will not stop them from a prosecution if they find one.
Maybe (and that's a stretch...I don't believe you for a moment), but it would most definitely stop them from winning the case, and therefore, they pay court costs.

Please tell me what more proof you're looking for? If the AG and State Police aren't enough authority, what would be??

I've heard this story of prosecutors "looking for a case to try" for a long time, but no one can ever provide proof that it's true. Which prosecutor??? I'd like to give him/her a call. Give me a name and county.

In the meantime, worry about the real threats to our 2A rights...we have enough of those without making up more!
__________________
Doug - The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative. | Ayn Rand - “The Nature of Government,” The Virtue of Selfishness, 108

"When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
douglasd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 18:59   #19
zbusdriver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: se michigan
Posts: 579
Quote:
Originally posted by centennial
That letter doesn't clarify anything because it is not an official AG opinion.
It's not signed by Mike Cox.
It carries no legal weight.
we do not need the AG’s opinion because the legal weight is carried in the michigan CPL statute. a bit of paranoia is healthy, but the prosecutor looking for a case sounds like a social rumor. my brother used to be a county prosecutor and is now a federal prosecutor. he and his fellow prosecutors are extremely busy and have little time for such nonsense. there are some rogue prosecutors out there, just as there are rogue cops, teachers and liberians -- but they are the exception.

usually, something is legal until it is made illegal. i read the entire statute two years ago, before i applied for my CPL: there is NO STATED LIMIT in the michigan CPL statute, and therefore -- THERE IS NO LIMIT!
__________________
The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

Last edited by zbusdriver; 10-08-2007 at 19:06..
zbusdriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 19:20   #20
RS2
Senior Member
 
RS2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally posted by zbusdriver
...there are rogue cops, teachers and liberians -- but they are the exception.

Oh, come on! We haven't had problems with the Liberians in years.



As far as the statutory construction, you might be right. You might not. I don't necessarily disagree with you.

Ultimately, it is up to the courts to determine questions of law. Not the State Police or the Attorney General.

And that letter is NOT an AG Opinion.
__________________
Ron

G26 / G19 / G30
RS2 is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:38.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,237
374 Members
863 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31