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Old 09-10-2007, 09:35   #1
feltoosj
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Something I've pondered...

Two things have been making my head hurt lately with all the thinking I've done on this particular subject. I'm a college student and a member of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC). I know that the ORC prohibits concealed carry on university campuses, but nothing explicitly lists what crime I could be charged with (maybe trespassing, a 4th degree misdemeanor?).

Also, the ORC prohibits "concealed" carry, but what about open carry? I would face expulsion for violating its no weapons rule, but could I face prosecution as well? Since open carry's allowed by the state (except for places listed and places with signs) and I attend a public university (an arm of the state), could they restrict my right to OC without posting up signage?

Feel free to post your "IANAL" speculations, but there's a lawyer out there or an LEO who might have some sort of "off the record" answer, I'd love to hear it.
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Old 09-10-2007, 10:10   #2
gtmtnbiker98
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Simple possession of a firearm is an F5 unless you hold a CCW and meet certain criteria. Doesn't matter if it is open or concealed, you cannot possess a firearm unless for instructional purposes or you are an LEO or authorized State employee. Read the ORC:

(A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance into a school safety zone.

(B) No person shall knowingly possess a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone.

(C) No person shall knowingly possess an object in a school safety zone if both of the following apply:

(1) The object is indistinguishable from a firearm, whether or not the object is capable of being fired.

(2) The person indicates that the person possesses the object and that it is a firearm, or the person knowingly displays or brandishes the object and indicates that it is a firearm.

(D)(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) An officer, agent, or employee of this or any other state or the United States, or a law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry deadly weapons or dangerous ordnance and is acting within the scope of the officer’s, agent’s, or employee’s duties, a security officer employed by a board of education or governing body of a school during the time that the security officer is on duty pursuant to that contract of employment, or any other person who has written authorization from the board of education or governing body of a school to convey deadly weapons or dangerous ordnance into a school safety zone or to possess a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone and who conveys or possesses the deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in accordance with that authorization;

(b) Any person who is employed in this state, who is authorized to carry deadly weapons or dangerous ordnance, and who is subject to and in compliance with the requirements of section 109.801 of the Revised Code, unless the appointing authority of the person has expressly specified that the exemption provided in division (D)(1)(b) of this section does not apply to the person.

(2) Division (C) of this section does not apply to premises upon which home schooling is conducted. Division (C) of this section also does not apply to a school administrator, teacher, or employee who possesses an object that is indistinguishable from a firearm for legitimate school purposes during the course of employment, a student who uses an object that is indistinguishable from a firearm under the direction of a school administrator, teacher, or employee, or any other person who with the express prior approval of a school administrator possesses an object that is indistinguishable from a firearm for a legitimate purpose, including the use of the object in a ceremonial activity, a play, reenactment, or other dramatic presentation, or a ROTC activity or another similar use of the object.

(3) This section does not apply to a person who conveys or attempts to convey a handgun into, or possesses a handgun in, a school safety zone if, at the time of that conveyance, attempted conveyance, or possession of the handgun, all of the following apply:

(a) The person does not enter into a school building or onto school premises and is not at a school activity.

(b) The person is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code.

(c) The person is in the school safety zone in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B).

(d) The person is not knowingly in a place described in division (B)(1) or (B)(3) to (10) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.

(E)(1) Whoever violates division (A) or (B) of this section is guilty of illegal conveyance or possession of a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone. Except as otherwise provided in this division, illegal conveyance or possession of a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone is a felony of the fifth degree. If the offender previously has been convicted of a violation of this section, illegal conveyance or possession of a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone is a felony of the fourth degree.

(2) Whoever violates division (C) of this section is guilty of illegal possession of an object indistinguishable from a firearm in a school safety zone. Except as otherwise provided in this division, illegal possession of an object indistinguishable from a firearm in a school safety zone is a misdemeanor of the first degree. If the offender previously has been convicted of a violation of this section, illegal possession of an object indistinguishable from a firearm in a school safety zone is a felony of the fifth degree.

(F)(1) In addition to any other penalty imposed upon a person who is convicted of or pleads guilty to a violation of this section and subject to division (F)(2) of this section, if the offender has not attained nineteen years of age, regardless of whether the offender is attending or is enrolled in a school operated by a board of education or for which the state board of education prescribes minimum standards under section 3301.07 of the Revised Code, the court shall impose upon the offender a class four suspension of the offender’s probationary driver’s license, restricted license, driver’s license, commercial driver’s license, temporary instruction permit, or probationary commercial driver’s license that then is in effect from the range specified in division (A)(4) of section 4510.02 of the Revised Code and shall deny the offender the issuance of any permit or license of that type during the period of the suspension.

If the offender is not a resident of this state, the court shall impose a class four suspension of the nonresident operating privilege of the offender from the range specified in division (A)(4) of section 4510.02 of the Revised Code.

(2) If the offender shows good cause why the court should not suspend one of the types of licenses, permits, or privileges specified in division (F)(1) of this section or deny the issuance of one of the temporary instruction permits specified in that division, the court in its discretion may choose not to impose the suspension, revocation, or denial required in that division.

(G) As used in this section, “object that is indistinguishable from a firearm” means an object made, constructed, or altered so that, to a reasonable person without specialized training in firearms, the object appears to be a firearm.

Effective Date: 04-08-2004; 03-14-2007
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Old 09-10-2007, 10:30   #3
feltoosj
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1) Does the definition of "school safety zone" include universities? Considering that the state allows you to keep your gun locked in your car on campus.

2) Should've clarified (and my apologies for not doing so earlier) that I have a CHL.

3) You might want to watch your wording...seems like you just told me I need to have a CHL to OC or even hold a gun (unless I'm an LEO or training).
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Old 09-10-2007, 15:43   #4
degoodman
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Quote:
Originally posted by gtmtnbiker98
Simple possession of a firearm is an F5 unless you hold a CCW and meet certain criteria. Doesn't matter if it is open or concealed, you cannot possess a firearm unless for instructional purposes or you are an LEO or authorized State employee. Read the ORC:

-snip-
This is not exactly correct.

Yes, CCW into a building owned by a University is an F-4 under the basic provisions of the carrying of concealed weapons statute. Doesn't matter if you have a CCW or not. CCW is prohibited on college campuses, with the exception of placing your weapon into a locked vehicle. Carrying into a statutorially prohibited place is an F-4. If the prohibited place is an otherwise legal carry zone, except for a posting by a private property owner, it's an M-4 criminal tresspass, but all the other violations are at least F-4's

School safety zones have nothing to do with this. Read the definition of a school safety zone and it applies to only primary and secondary schools, k-12, and not colleges or Universities.

The F-5 violation that everyone is thinking of is the failure to inform.

Read ORC 2923.12 for the exact prohibitions. And also note that 2923.121 (the liquor permit prohibition) is a seperate charge for mere possession of any firearm in a permit establishment, that's an F-5. CCW in a liquor permit establishment is an F-3 per ORC 2923.12(G)1

Ugly ain't it.
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Old 09-10-2007, 15:50   #5
degoodman
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Also note that while you will not be criminally charged, you can and will be expelled for possession of any weapon on most campuses, regardless of your CHL status, with very specific and narrow exceptions. This is a university policy, not a law, so there are no criminal penalties attached, but facing expulsion is a severe penalty in and of itself, given the costs associated with a college education these days.
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Old 09-10-2007, 16:32   #6
feltoosj
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Um...I will most likely be criminally charged if I carried on campus...

So I've found out it's a M1/F4 to carry on campus (licensed) but the penalties are kinda hidden in the statue (at least they require effort to locate).

And yes, I'm well aware that I'd most likely get expelled. I don't carry on campus for fear that I'll get expelled and go to jail, and I'm not advocating breaking the law.

Still unsure about OCing though...anyone have any ideas? (I'm thinking legal, not school policy...I'm aware of my school's policies).
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Old 09-11-2007, 14:04   #7
gtmtnbiker98
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Sorry for the mislead, IANAL and do not pretend to be. I was merely trying to shed light on a question. As for OC on a college campus, why the risk?
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Old 09-11-2007, 15:15   #8
feltoosj
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I'm not asking about OCing because I want to go ahead and try it. It'd make for an interesting experiment, but if anything I'd wait till AFTER I graduated and AFTER I physically received my diploma. It's just something I've been racking my brain over lately.

Of course, a few years ago, OC walks spouted all over the state to persuade the legislature to allow Ohioans to CCW. Were it not for the whole getting expelled thing, something similar on college campuses may have a similar effect (I'm just brainstorming) or perhaps on public roads within a university's campus (unless that's considered part of campus). It's just an idea, and at the very least it's something I've wondered. I have an inquisitive mind.
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