[DefenderC5]

Originally Posted by meeko

+1000

One of the things I can't stand is the AF troops (primarly Security Forces troops) that want to play pretend like they are Army infantry but don't want to look like the Army. They want their own "special" uniform/camo pattern. It would just make sense to utilize the Army uniform after all the Army actually seemed to listen to the troops input on their uniform.

On the contrary, most of the SP I know and work with don't like the ABU either. They are still wearing the BDU as long as possible. I can see the senior leadership wanting to "play Army" but not "look Army". But the younger guys don't really care.

What erks me is so much money is spent on development of ABU, but it took another year or more to finally get a matching kevlar cover. Our gear/equipment still doesnt match, it is still desert camo. If they wanted us to look different they sure did succeed!

I've never understood the Air Force's animosity towards the Army. I'm all for heritage, but they are our sister service after all.

[meeko]

Originally Posted by DefenderC5

I've never understood the Air Force's animosity towards the Army. I'm all for heritage, but they are our sister service after all.

Like I have always said "The USAF, 60 years untouched by tradition!"

[Morris]

I've never understood the Air Force's animosity towards the Army. I'm all for heritage, but they are our sister service after all.

I'd chalk that up to the little pecker syndrome, even though th ADAF controls the big ones. However, a special relationship exists between those groups in the AF that are constantly aligned with the Army, notably TACP, Combat WX and STS (when assigned to a unit). Very symbotic there as each needs the other to complete the mission.

Someone explain to me why OD green BDUs won't work as well for all areas? Not enough gucchi-flage?

[MrMurphy]

I was going to avoid the ABU as long as possible but got promoted, and all my BDUs were either fast approaching or already at "Snow Camo" stage, and had to be replaced, so I embraced the gayness and went ABU.

The wash and wear is nice, but I don't consider it in any way a real combat uniform. Oddly, at night, it does blend better faster than the DCU, it's a little darker and digital, but not quite as well as the BDU against regular grass at least.

[Live With Honor]

I see a lot of blaming Security Forces for starching uniforms, polishing boots, etc., but understand it's not our fault. We fully understand why it's ridiculous to starch uniforms and polish boots before a field exercise, but more often than not, we are being instructed by higher-ups to do so.

A perfect example of this was a recent field exercise I was on, where the NCOIC insisted that the black knee and elbow pads we were wearing were getting "worn" looking (you read correctly). So, he promptly instructed all of us to polish the plastic portion of the pads with boot polish. So, there we are, in the middle of the field, faces painted, geared up, and polishing our knee pads with boot polish.

Dont' get me wrong, I'm all for looking sharp during normal duties, and setting the standard for others to follow, but before anyone blames the troops for starching or pressing their ABU's, remember that the troops were probably told to do so by someone a lot higher than them.

[Sam White]

I'm not active duty like some others in the thread but I still see some of this at my base. The First Sergeant (usually) will tell the squadron we need to have sharper creases or shinier boots, etc. Sometimes we get emails sent base-wide solemnly reminding us that we need to look square away I don't think I've ever heard someone below MSgT ever mention the issue in my squadron.

[MrMurphy]

I would have introduced Mr.Kneepad to electrical tape.

I've heard some dumb ones, but that's up near the top of the list.

[Morris]

A perfect example of this was a recent field exercise I was on, where the NCOIC insisted that the black knee and elbow pads we were wearing were getting "worn" looking (you read correctly). So, he promptly instructed all of us to polish the plastic portion of the pads with boot polish. So, there we are, in the middle of the field, faces painted, geared up, and polishing our knee pads with boot polish.

That would be a clue that the NCOIC dillweed never spent anytime in any real event. If he had spent a rotation at NTC or Polk for exercises, they would have laughed their butts off at him, never mind real FOBs or in-theater bases.

But I still remember a CMSgt idiot who would give you gigs if the crease on your pickle suit was off or your flightline boots weren't daily polished. I remember my former Vietnam vet line boss telling him to get bent one day when the gigs finally were enough.

[najaboy]

Originally Posted by MrMurphy

I was going to avoid the ABU as long as possible but got promoted, and all my BDUs were either fast approaching or already at "Snow Camo" stage, and had to be replaced, so I embraced the gayness and went ABU.

The wash and wear is nice, but I don't consider it in any way a real combat uniform. Oddly, at night, it does blend better faster than the DCU, it's a little darker and digital, but not quite as well as the BDU against regular grass at least.

Actually, I just wanted to correct something... the ABU pattern is not digital. The Air Force was offered several actual digital patterns, but turned them down. Instead, they took tiger stripes and added some ragged edges to them.

[DefenderC5]

Originally Posted by najaboy

Actually, I just wanted to correct something... the ABU pattern is not digital. The Air Force was offered several actual digital patterns, but turned them down. Instead, they took tiger stripes and added some ragged edges to them.

Looking at them right now. Those "ragged edges" are what most others would call a "pixelated" or "digitized" pattern. It's a digital tiger stripe, different names for the same thing. Looking at the guy next to me, they look just as "ragged" as the ACU, which is digitized.

Regardless, my ACU IBA covers most of it up anyway. The office commandos apparently didn't factor in the need for an ABU body armor.

[najaboy]

Originally Posted by DefenderC5

Looking at them right now. Those "ragged edges" are what most others would call a "pixelated" or "digitized" pattern. It's a digital tiger stripe, different names for the same thing. Looking at the guy next to me, they look just as "ragged" as the ACU, which is digitized.

Regardless, my ACU IBA covers most of it up anyway. The office commandos apparently didn't factor in the need for an ABU body armor.

Far from an issue of semantics. The AF was presented with several digital prototypes, but rejected them all. The design that was opted for is not a pixelated pattern by any means.

It's interesting to note that the designers of the ABU issued an open apology to Airmen on their website, along with a brief synopsis (including photos) of the digitized patterns that they offered the AF.

[MrMurphy]

The ABU designers said "we'll use Army gear" i.e ACU pattern body armor, helmet covers, and tactical gear, which makes me wonder why they bothered going with a different pattern uniform if 75% of your body is covered in ACU pattern (which, admittedly, mixes very well with ABU in the people I've seen wearing both).

[spectre381]

Originally Posted by meangenedrlove

That statement is one of the things about the USAF I have a huge problem with. We're not doctors, lawyers, or accountants...those are professionals. We're warriors. We get down and dirty to get the job done.

Have you ever heard the term "Profession of Arms"? You ARE a professional... every bit as much as the doctors, lawyers, or accountants. And in my humble opinion, even more so. Not everyone can or will do the various jobs of the military professional. You, and everyone serving, is a "professional" in your particular craft and in the profession of arms - or in layman's terms - the military service and all the traditions that go hand in hand with that. Getting the job done as you say, whether it involves "getting down and dirty" or standing at a gate in a starched uniform, requires professionalism to the utmost degree. Not having 5 or 6 or 10 yrs of college under your belt doesn't make you any less professional than someone with an "advanced" educational degree.

Where did I form my opinion on this subject? I retired in mid-2006 after 22 1/2 yrs of proud service in the USAF. I spent the first handful behind a desk, 7 yrs as a Sensor Operator onboard AC-130H Spectre gunships, and almost 4 yrs as a squadron and then group First Sgt before I retired. So I've worn the starched and pressed uniform with the shiny boots. I've worn the flt suit that hasn't been washed in a week because we were too busy flying combat missions over Somalia or Bosnia or Afghanistan or Iraq and were more worried about staying alive than looking pretty. I've celebrated reenlistments with friends in uniform, and paid respects at some of those same friends funerals in my uniform. And I will tell you that with very few exceptions over those 22 1/2 yrs, when I pulled that uniform on (regardless of the variation) I was proud to wear it and proud of what it stood for. I was a PROFESSIONAL member of the US Air Force.

[agentl074]

Well I was one of those SF Journeymen who had to starch the uniform and shine the boots until they could be mirrors .... Although, I like the sound of a maintenance free service uniform - you cant beat the woodland BDU! I hated the idea of a blue POS to replace the tried and true colors. Shine on the boots should ALWAYS be a sense of pride on a troops uniform! I remember when my BDU's were'nt starched the best razor shape (because I didnt know to let them dry at least a day lol) ... But the funny thing is that I learned so much more when I got out and let the four years of information soak in.

Troops have something to show for their pride - if the ABU's cannot deminstrate this, let the boots do the talking.

[MrMurphy]

I have to admit, not having to worry about shining the hell out of your boots only five minutes into the shift to completely wipe them out simply by getting in your Humvee is nice.

Since I spend the majority of my day unseen by anyone, in a Humvee, this is nice.

[agentl074]

Clorafram shoes were nice for the blues in that regard hehe

[Morris]

Okay, I remember as a young airman choking on the price of a BDU set at Clothing Sales. What does a set of ABUs run now?

[MrMurphy]

With name tags stripes and patches (granted, the Infamous Walking Billboard look is out, so there's fewer patches), about $100.

[DefenderC5]

Originally Posted by MrMurphy

With name tags stripes and patches (granted, the Infamous Walking Billboard look is out, so there's fewer patches), about $100.

Yup, still too much IMO. They only thing that went away was command/unit patches, and those were usually issued by the unit.

Apparently they are phasing out the green boots and sticking with the tan (finally a good move) and also making it lighter weight (oh thank God)... can anyone confirm this?

[MrMurphy]

The lighter weight top was confirmed, more or less in AF Times. As well as a upcoming "combat shirt" basically an ABU pattern clone of the Army's.

No word on the green boot being phased out, this would make far too much sense for the USAF.

[najaboy]

Originally Posted by DefenderC5

Yup, still too much IMO. They only thing that went away was command/unit patches, and those were usually issued by the unit.

Apparently they are phasing out the green boots and sticking with the tan (finally a good move) and also making it lighter weight (oh thank God)... can anyone confirm this?

The green boots are not being phased out. Initial issue of ABU boots was suspended in order to allow the current supply of tan boots to be depleted.

[maclean]

They are $100 when you can effin find a matched pair!

Good luck with that!

[Notrega]

Someone has to say it...

[DrMaxit]

I was the FIRST flight in the AF to be ISSUED the new ABUs in Basic. Mine don't match or fit for ****, they were low on inventory so I "got what i got." I think that some look good if you take the time to get the right sizes, but mine literally look like ****. Its in the clothing regs that its UNAUTHORIZED to starch, press, alter or basically do anything, other than wash and wear. Yeah its easier, but needless to say, I've bought a set of BDUs myself, just so I don't look like a jackass.

--Chuck

[MrMurphy]

Well, you could have just gotten a pair color matched. If you need the babycrap green boots that are actually COMFORTABLE (coming from a cop, i know about comfortable boots) Converse's sidezip desert model are now available in "sage". $80 or so from www.lapolicegear.com and yes they ship to APO.