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Old 08-22-2008, 15:08   #51
glockophilic
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Anyone know how it works?
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Old 08-22-2008, 15:14   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyboss_4evr View Post
I'm sure T.R. Graham will be along shortly to explain the "how" to you. If not, I suggest giving him a call. He's a great guy to deal with and his gun knowledge is far beyond mine. He explained the "how" to me in great detail. With that all said, my G23 and two G27's have all exhibited noticeably tighter groups with the MGSL.
Perhaps T.R. will explain here in GT... & I appreciate your suggestion to call him. Of course, he may prefer that I buy his video.

However, since he explained to you in great detail, I assume you are satisfied with the answer. Why not pass it along to us? It seems the answer would be fairly simple for such a simple part.
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Old 08-22-2008, 17:06   #53
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Originally Posted by Noponer View Post
No disrespect to TR or to anyone who has fired a Glock with the MGSL, but I do not see how it helps. I have not tested a gun with one, so I will have to believe those of you who have tested one.

The slide lock does not "address lockup" as BOGE stated. Take the slidelock out of your gun & slip the slide/barrel assembly back on. The locking block pulls the assembly out of - & into - lockup. The slide lock simply determines how far the assembly moves forward on the guide rails before stopping. A thicker, better machined, & wider slide stop will just make stop farther to the rear by the extra thickness of the stop.

Once, I installed a factory slide stop in backward. That makes the slide sit back so much farther (because no groove on the other side) that it is noticable. The gun worked OK like this for several months. Afer I noticed the slide hanging over rear of the frame. I investigated & installed the stop correctly.

Maybe someone can explain to me - & anyone else who wants to know - HOW the MGSL works. General references to "better quality", "more precise", etc. still do not explain HOW that makes a Glock group better. If I knew that it would help, I would buy some, at least for my USPSA guns.


I can explain it for you. Look on your barrel. Notice how there are two lugs? The front lug has a little lip on it. That lip mates with the lip on the slide lock. The more consistent that mating, the more consistent your barrel lockup will be. What the MGSL does is provide a very smooth and consistent surface so that your barrel lockup is consistent every time. This is a picture of the slide lock from my CCF Race Frame gun after a few hundred rounds.

Gun-Parts & Access.

My accuracy was suffering and I couldn't figure out why. I was a hair away from ordering an aftermarket barrel and having it fitted to my gun when I came across this thread. Notice that divot on the slide lock? That's from the lug hitting it unevenly. The wear should be a nice, even line across.

I ordered the MGSL hoping it would be the cure for my problems, and guess what, it worked. My groups decreased in size by roughly 30% and are now on-par with what I shoot with all of my other highly accurate guns (a full custom 1911 and a Sig P228). In other words, the accuracy was exactly what I was expecting out of the CCF in the first place.

Now, do I think everyone needs the MGSL...no. If your slide lock has a very even wear pattern on it, in all likelihood the performance gain will be marginal. I have a Glock 36 like this and it's a highly accurate gun rivaling some 1911s I've shot. That said, I do think a majority of Glocks can probably benefit from it.

I'm a huge sceptic when it comes to these little "innovations" for pistols, but I honestly thing this is one of those rare occasions where it does work. If I were to spend $100 on making a Glock awesome, it'd be this, a LWD 3.5 lbs. connector, LWD overtravel stop, $.25 trigger job, and 3M grip tape. It really ranks up there as one of the best improvements you can do for a Glock.
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Old 08-22-2008, 17:51   #54
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Sorry.

Thanks, caneau.

That does not tell me what I wanted to know, but I appreciate the effort. (read my comment about lockup)
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Old 08-22-2008, 18:44   #55
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Originally Posted by Noponer View Post
Thanks, caneau.

That does not tell me what I wanted to know, but I appreciate the effort. (read my comment about lockup)
What more do you want to know? It works by increasing the contact surface of your front locking lug against the slide lock. More contact surface = consistent lockup = greater accuracy. If you want, I can take a picture of the MGSL after I put about 100 rounds through my gun so you can see the different wear patterns.

If you want, I can show you how these parts all fit together. It's pretty hard to explain how the slide lock relates to the barrel and secures the barrel directly to the frame but it's pretty easy to see in a picture.
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Old 08-22-2008, 19:59   #56
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Originally Posted by caneau View Post

If you want, I can show you how these parts all fit together.
That would be great.
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Old 08-22-2008, 20:46   #57
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The locking block pulls the assembly out of - & into - lockup. The slide lock simply determines how far the assembly moves forward on the guide rails before stopping. A thicker, better machined, & wider slide stop will just make stop farther to the rear by the extra thickness of the stop.
The barrel is not held in lockup by the locking block. In the typical case the two parts are not in direct contact when the gun is locked up. Push down on the barrel with the gun in lockup and you'll see that this is true.

The MGSL "corralls" the barrel slightly and that means that the barrel's position in lockup is more consistent.
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Old 08-22-2008, 22:03   #58
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The easiest answer to those who are skeptics of the MGSL is simply, "don't buy the part." Just keep your Glocks stock and you neither lose or gain anything. Why did I buy aftermarket triggers, buy various sights, grind/cut/stipple the grips, buy aftermarket slides, barrels, recoil gizmos, etc? Because I could and that the parts were available.

I screw around with guns and aftermarket parts just to see what they do. I like to shoot the things, guns that is. I figured for $30.00 why not try the part and if I don't like it I will throw it in the same bag all my other stuff resides that I don't use any longer, along with quite a pile of holsters -hmmm... gotta do something about those excess holsters.

I'm taking the Glock 19 that a MGSL resides in to an extensive private range this weekend to try it out in front of a bunch of pistoleros. If I see something of note I'll post, but for now the MGSL is such a much nicer part than stock that regardless of what it does it is staying put in the G19. In my two extensively customized Glocks I didn't think the MGSL contributed much, but that is more a visceral feeling after shooting several hundred rounds than scientific measurement.

However, I got a much better feel in my G19 right away with the MGSL. If it is simply a self-fulfilling prophecy so be it, but that MGSL is staying put in my customized, yet Glock polymer, CCW G19.

Maybe someone who has a Ransom Rest with a Glock insert, a good chronograph, a good handloading system and good recording & reporting skills will record and report an exhaustive study of the efficacy of the MGSL. Until such a report is made I am sticking with the well-engineered MGSL in my polymer Glocks.
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Old 08-22-2008, 22:32   #59
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In my two extensively customized Glocks I didn't think the MGSL contributed much...
'Tis to be hoped that whoever did the extensive customizations took care of this issue in other ways. That is to say, I wouldn't expect much improvement in a gun that's already been worked over by an expert.
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Old 08-22-2008, 22:45   #60
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Originally Posted by TexasPOff View Post
TR Graham can be reached at (832)695-7192, or emai at GRHM458@CS.com. Great guy to deal with. The MGSL is $30.00, and super easy to install. The MGSL is the one on top. You can see the area where the barrel locks into is smaller than the OEM. The MGSL is lightly extended as well allowing for easier take down. It is hard to see in the pictures, but the OEM slide lock is actually bowed a little. TR explaind that with a stamped part this sometimes happens. This can also be a mechanical contribution to your Glock not shooting POA. It can cause shooting left of right. The one I have here is a pretty good one as you can see the wear marks are fairly even. TR said look at your slide lock, and there will usually be wear more on one side than the other. This is an effect of the part not being true, or straight. The MGSL is laser cut harded steel, and is very true. My 23 shoot POA to begin with, so this wasn't an issue for me.

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Is it just the photo or is the groove cut in the top slidelock top photo, much wider on the right side than on the left?
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Old 08-22-2008, 23:16   #61
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I am not a skeptic of the MGSL. As I said in the beginning, I must believe those who say it works because I have not tried it. I may buy one & see what it does for me. I was not attempting to discredit the MGSL or TR Graham; if someone has taken it that way, I apologize.

Also, just because I do not agree with someone's explanation of the mechanics does not mean that I do not understand the explanation.
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Old 08-23-2008, 00:31   #62
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...just because I do not agree with someone's explanation of the mechanics...
Did you try pressing down on the barrel/chamber with the gun in lockup?

That should satisfy you that the barrel and locking block are not usually in contact when the gun is in battery. In fact, the small lip on the bottom of the barrel is held against the slide lock by recoil spring pressure. From that point it should be easy to understand why the smaller groove in the MGSL puts the barrel lip (and therefore the barrel) in a more consistent position compared to the larger groove in the standard slide lock.
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:49   #63
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Maybe someone who has a Ransom Rest with a Glock insert...
It was always my understanding that Glocks perform poorly in a Ransom Rest due to the polymer flexing when tightened down in the rest. Has something changed?
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Old 08-23-2008, 05:52   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOGE View Post
It was always my understanding that Glocks perform poorly in a Ransom Rest due to the polymer flexing when tightened down in the rest. Has something changed?
Surely someone can shoot over sandbags.
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Old 08-23-2008, 06:24   #65
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Surely someone can shoot over sandbags.
If the improvement is only noticeable when shooting from bags or a rest, it is not relevant to self defense or even to freehand target shooting.

The only way to do the test is to do the "blind" experiment where the shooter does not know which slide stop is in the gun. Then have someone change the slide stop and shoot again... same gun, same conditions. Compare the two targets.
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:31   #66
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Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post
Did you try pressing down on the barrel/chamber with the gun in lockup?

That should satisfy you that the barrel and locking block are not usually in contact when the gun is in battery. In fact, the small lip on the bottom of the barrel is held against the slide lock by recoil spring pressure. From that point it should be easy to understand why the smaller groove in the MGSL puts the barrel lip (and therefore the barrel) in a more consistent position compared to the larger groove in the standard slide lock.
Thanks, John. Yes, I have pushed the barrel down many times on the 25 Glocks I have owned since 1990.

I just now tried something else. I removed the locking block on my G-34 & reassembled the gun. The slide quits moving forward at the same position, of course. To further your case, the slight rearward movement of the slide to the rear when pushing down on the barrel hood... is still there. Apparently caused by the barrel lip sliding down in the slide locks wider groove (because the lock is not vertical, but angled back at the bottom).

I have never said that the locking block holds the gun in lockup. The barrel/slide are in lockup when you put it on the frame. I never thought that the assembly had to be "held" together for correct firing, because there is typically no force causing movement there. However, it does seem that the MGSL's narrower groove would hold barrel & slide together better. I assume that pushing down on the barrel hood would not move the hood down very much when an MGSL is installed. Whether this really helps or not, I don't know. The MGSL sure seems to be doing something to help a lot of shooters reporting here on GT.

Thanks for all the answers to my question. I will just have to get an MGSL & see what it does for me.
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Old 08-23-2008, 14:47   #67
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Pushing down on the barrel with an MGSL installed will show the same amount of barrel travel as before, the difference is that you can see the MGSL moving down as the barrel moves down. With the stock part there's enough slop in the interaction between the two parts that the barrel can move downward without the slide lock moving.
Quote:
I never thought that the assembly had to be "held" together for correct firing, because there is typically no force causing movement there. However, it does seem that the MGSL's narrower groove would hold barrel & slide together better.
It's not holding the barrel & slide together, it's only helping to position the rear of the barrel more consistently.

In other words, you're looking for something that's going to rigidly lock the end of the barrel in place so it can't move at all. That's not what's happening. There is no rigid mechanical locking mechanism provided by the MGSL, it's not making things perfect, it's only providing improved consistency compared to the stock part. Better, not perfect. More consistent, not perfectly consistent.
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Old 08-23-2008, 15:02   #68
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It's prolly the light and I'm not the best photographer. They way it works is very very simple. look at the stock Glock SL, and the large area for the barrel lug to lock up to. The MGSL has a much smaller area. This translates in to a more secured area for the Barrel lug to lock up to. The barrel will actually peen a small area on the MGSL. This is where the barrel will continue to lock up to. This is what creates the consistant lockup. The barrel will lock up at the same place every time. The Factory part was not designed to do this. With the design of the Glock pistol installing the MGSL does not affect reliablity at all. I have put over a thousand rounds through my G23 since the MGSL was installed. It has gotten a little better over time as the barrel now has a peened area that is sits in every time. Not to worry about the barrel lug and damage. The tenifer treatment makes the barrels metal harder than the MSGL. For 30 bucks you can't go wrong with this part. Again the MGSL operates in the same principle as a Match Grade link on 1911. It allows for a more consistant barrel and slide lockup.
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Old 08-24-2008, 06:31   #69
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There was a time when I didnt like Glocks. T R Graham changed that for me.
He is the Medicine Man of the Glock in my opinion.
If he says this part will improve accuracy, etc. , it will.
I will order one for my G30.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:36   #70
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The price sure is reasonable for any of us running glocks at matches but I can not shake the feeling this is a solution looking for a problem. I dont shoot my handgun out past 25 yards and even those distances are shot more for trigger disclipline. Slower shots.

I can plainly see the replacement part is better looking but this is a part that keeps my slide on the frame until I want to disassemble the firearm.

The amount the barrel might move in various positions when closing the slide are much less than the effect of the twitch, drop of sweat, rock I am standing on, brain fart we all experience when shooting 6" circles or squares on the move.

Im standing back from the Kool Aid bar just yet. Water will be just fine. Dont flame me just yet. I am open minded still.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:27   #71
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There was a time when I didnt like Glocks. T R Graham changed that for me.
He is the Medicine Man of the Glock in my opinion.
If he says this part will improve accuracy, etc. , it will.
I will order one for my G30.
+1 to that. I had one on my G30 but took it off to put on my G27(for carry). Time to buy another at the next gun show. I bought T.R.'s dvd, its excellent and he doesn't try to promote any of his parts on it either. Its all just knowledge about Glocks and how to take care of them.
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Old 08-24-2008, 22:01   #72
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It doesn't seem that anyone has done a blind test with this part and that bothers me. It would take about 5 minutes and 20 rounds of ammo. Is that too much to ask? If you believe in this part and think others should give it a try, just do the test.
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Old 08-25-2008, 00:59   #73
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As soon as I get the part I'll use (test) it (as stated henceforth) like a courtesy car to a cathouse!!
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Old 08-25-2008, 06:44   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Civitas View Post
It doesn't seem that anyone has done a blind test with this part and that bothers me. It would take about 5 minutes and 20 rounds of ammo. Is that too much to ask? If you believe in this part and think others should give it a try, just do the test.
Suggestion-

If it worries you that much.....you buy one and do the test.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:00   #75
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I bought one probably 4-5 yrs ago off TRG when he was in S/Indy:Greenwood.
I put it in my G37 that I was using as a bullseye gun.Using a Carver mount and a Ultradot it took my Groupsize from about 5" to about 3" at 50 yds.
I have them in all my Glocks-Look, the fact they make take-down easier is worth the price of admission.

TR- if you're out there please PM me- I'll take a couple more.
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