GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2008, 05:45   #1
userfriendly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: RP
Posts: 186
.22 or 9mm

Which is more potent a .22lr fired from a rifle or a 9mm from a pistol? Lets say for home defense which should I grab first? These are the ones I have so I'm limited to them.
userfriendly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 06:18   #2
wtf jack
Senior Member
 
wtf jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by userfriendly View Post
Which is more potent a .22lr fired from a rifle or a 9mm from a pistol? Lets say for home defense which should I grab first? These are the ones I have so I'm limited to them.
This is assuming that you can shoot the .22 and the 9MM equally well.

Home defense implies that both you and your target will be inside your house. In very tight quarters, the length of the rifle becomes a distinct disadvantage. It is like trying to use a jungle bolo to fight while inside a closet.

The 9MM is superior to the .22LR for defensive purposes. The compactness of the pistol would also help you while navigating around corners. It will be worthless though if you can't shoot worth a damn while under duress. The chances of you hitting something else is pretty high.

I would strongly recommend the 9MM pistol. Keep it clean and well lubricated. Take it to the shooting range and simulate shooting without using the iron sights. This is to see if you can hit a man size target in the dark. Lay the pistol on the table, pick it up and fire two shots as quickly as you can into your target and see if you hit anywhere close to the center of mass. Distance of the target? Same distance as the longest room in your house.
wtf jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 06:20   #3
BrassKnuckle
Senior Member
 
BrassKnuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by userfriendly View Post
Which is more potent a .22lr fired from a rifle or a 9mm from a pistol? Lets say for home defense which should I grab first? These are the ones I have so I'm limited to them.
The 9mm is more potent by a wide margin. If you look at the specs, a typical hi-velocity .22lr bullet fired from a rifle and a typical 9mm bullet fired from a pistol both have velocities in the neighborhood of 1200fps (give or take a few fps).

The clincher is the 9mm's heavier bullet commonly at around 115gns against the .22lr bullet's 40gns. That's about triple the energy right there assuming equal velocity. The 9mm's advantage becomes even more pronounced when you use premium hollowpoint bullets.

Your 9mm pistol most likely has a larger magazine capacity than your .22 rifle, and the pistol is definitely easier to maneuver inside your house.

For defending your home against 4-legged rodents, go for the .22. For 2-legged vermin I'd vote for the 9mm.
BrassKnuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 06:55   #4
cebuboy
toy soldier
 
cebuboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cebu
Posts: 1,246
The 9mm handgun is my first choice, shooting someone with a .22lr might just piss him off some more
__________________
if it burns gunpowder and goes bang, it is never a waste of money.
cebuboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 07:28   #5
BrassKnuckle
Senior Member
 
BrassKnuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuboy View Post
shooting someone with a .22lr might just piss him off some more

This is a valid consideration given that some intruders may be high on drugs and have a higher threshold for withstanding hits from small-caliber weapons.

I'd definitely pick the 9mm and load it with the most potent wonder bullets I can find.

Mounting a good tactical light on the pistol is also a good idea as it blinds the opponent while at the same time illuminating him.
BrassKnuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 07:32   #6
wtf jack
Senior Member
 
wtf jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 279
Regardless of the caliber, shot placement is the key. Even though the .22 had been belittled, I will not want to be at the receiving end of it.
Here is a picture of the Israeli Army using the good old Ruger 1022 .22LR in combat.

Band of Glockers
wtf jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 08:12   #7
Poodle
Senior Member
 
Poodle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 735
9 mm for defense.

Although I would like to acquire a Ruger 10/22 carbine with the 25 round mag.
Poodle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 10:05   #8
cebuboy
toy soldier
 
cebuboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Cebu
Posts: 1,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtf jack View Post
Even though the .22 had been belittled, I will not want to be at the receiving end of it.
Ahihihi I was only kidding, the .22lr paltik pocket revolver is a favourite weapon of street gangs here.
__________________
if it burns gunpowder and goes bang, it is never a waste of money.
cebuboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 10:45   #9
bikethief
itchy trigger
 
bikethief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southside, Metro Manila
Posts: 1,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtf jack View Post
Regardless of the caliber, shot placement is the key. Even though the .22 had been belittled, I will not want to be at the receiving end of it.
Here is a picture of the Israeli Army using the good old Ruger 1022 .22LR in combat.

Band of Glockers

As far as I know, this picture wasn't really taken in a "combat" situation. This was a crowd dispersal operation that escalated. They use the .22 to quietly disable the instigators and firestarters. I first saw this pic in a similar discussion on rimfirecentral.com.

9mm over any .22 for me any time. .22's are fun. Home invasions aren't.
__________________
"Speak LOUDEST, and carry the BIGGEST stick! Step on the little people, and then call their mothers UGLY!"

- bikethief
bikethief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 11:57   #10
wtf jack
Senior Member
 
wtf jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 279
The term "combat" had already taken a different shade of meaning in the Middle East. Take note that these hush puppies are not used in riot control anymore because they had caused more fatality than expected.
The 9MM is clearly superior to the 22LR and I am advocating choosing it over the 22LR, but only if the owner can shoot the pistol properly. Some of us do not have the luxury of being able to shoot regularly. A properly placed 22LR shot is way more valuable than a whole bunch of stray 9MM's.
wtf jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 17:47   #11
Allegra
Senior Member
 
Allegra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Philippines
Posts: 6,706
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtf jack View Post
This is assuming that you can shoot the .22 and the 9MM equally well.

Home defense implies that both you and your target will be inside your house. In very tight quarters, the length of the rifle becomes a distinct disadvantage. It is like trying to use a jungle bolo to fight while inside a closet.

The 9MM is superior to the .22LR for defensive purposes. The compactness of the pistol would also help you while navigating around corners. It will be worthless though if you can't shoot worth a damn while under duress. The chances of you hitting something else is pretty high.

I would strongly recommend the 9MM pistol. Keep it clean and well lubricated. Take it to the shooting range and simulate shooting without using the iron sights. This is to see if you can hit a man size target in the dark. Lay the pistol on the table, pick it up and fire two shots as quickly as you can into your target and see if you hit anywhere close to the center of mass. Distance of the target? Same distance as the longest room in your house.
Point shooting?
__________________
" When I'm eating,that's all I think about / If I'm on the march, I just concentrate on marching / If I have to fight,it will be just as good a day to die as any other / If you can concentrate always on the present,you'll be a happy man "
- the Camel Driver
Allegra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 18:45   #12
wtf jack
Senior Member
 
wtf jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allegra View Post
Point shooting?
Yup!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting
wtf jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 19:00   #13
edtf
Senior Member
 
edtf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: QC
Posts: 2,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtf jack View Post
Regardless of the caliber, shot placement is the key. Even though the .22 had been belittled, I will not want to be at the receiving end of it.
Here is a picture of the Israeli Army using the good old Ruger 1022 .22LR in combat.

Band of Glockers
If I remember correctly they were using this against Palestinian rioters. They would shoot the rock throwers on the leg or somewhere where they won't die so that other members would carry them out. That is what they should have done during the May 1 riots here.

oooopppppps sorry bike thief just stated the same thing.
edtf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 19:07   #14
CatsMeow
Senior Member
 
CatsMeow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manila, imported from Cebu City
Posts: 2,710
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuboy View Post
Ahihihi I was only kidding, the .22lr paltik pocket revolver is a favourite weapon of street gangs here.
But the .45 is the weapon of choice for the street executioners here.
__________________
"My garden is smaller than your Rome, but my pilum is harder than your sternum."
CatsMeow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 19:39   #15
wtf jack
Senior Member
 
wtf jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by edtf View Post
If I remember correctly they were using this against Palestinian rioters. They would shoot the rock throwers on the leg or somewhere where they won't die so that other members would carry them out. That is what they should have done during the May 1 riots here.

oooopppppps sorry bike thief just stated the same thing.
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm

In the recent Israeli-Palestinian clashes began in 2000, the Ruger resumes it's original role as a less lethal riot control weapon. However, it's usage in this role was rather controversial this time. After several incidents involving the death of Palestinians by the Ruger fire, the IDF conducted a field experiment in the Ruger at the IDF Sniper School in Mitkan Adam under the supervision of the IDF Judge Advocate General (JAG). The test showed that the Ruger was more lethal then thought especially in upper body injuries. Also, since it's suppressed and was considered less lethal by the troops, the soldiers were much more likely to use the Ruger loosely then intended.

As a result of this test, the JAG reclassified the Ruger as a lethal weapon. As a lethal weapon, the usage of the Ruger in riot control is much more limited today. In the IDF Center Command it was completely prohibited to use and the IDF South Command it's deployment was cut down dramatically.
wtf jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 20:25   #16
Sweater
Senior Member
 
Sweater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 649
22 and 9mm

IMHO, I will go for the 9mm, I bought a 22lr for my 15 year old who practice with it, but after a couple of trips to the range she wants the G19, economically 22 ammos are cheaper, but for carry or home defense you can`t go wrong with a 9mm , especially a Glock.---Sweater
Sweater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 20:34   #17
mikey177
Remember
 
mikey177's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Philippines
Posts: 2,273


For home defense in close quarters, I would also pick a 9mm because of its higher degree of maneuverability and because it is more difficult for an adversary to grab as you navigate corners inside your house.

However, if the threat is still outside your front door but in your yard, maybe you would want to consider not the .22LR, but the .22 WMR, which IMO could be a more potent and accurate weapon at long range than the 9mm.

Darwin convinced me that the .22 Magnum rifle is a good personal defense weapon. It is also not difficult or expensive to obtain, unlike a high-powered rifle.

From 20 meters away, the .22 Magnum can easily penetrate a 2x4, and although it has a small entry hole, it makes a much larger exit hole, as seen from this photo:

Band of Glockers
mikey177 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 20:58   #18
BrassKnuckle
Senior Member
 
BrassKnuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 345
There's no doubt that a .22 is lethal. The big question is: How long does it usually take for a person to be neutralized after being hit by one? If it is immediate then great (but I seriously doubt that). If it takes a while (which is more likey), then the shootee will live long enough to inflict harm or even kill the shooter armed with a .22. Of course I'm assuming a close-range encounter typical in home defense.

The objective in home/self defense is to immediately disable the assailant/s and neutralize the threat that they pose. Whether or not they die from the wounds they sustain is secondary. The bad guys are down and the good guys are safe. That's what matters.

For that mission I have much more faith in a 9mm than a .22. (Questions to ponder: What was the Ruger's mission when the IDF employed it? Is that the same mission I will assign it in a home-defense scenario?)

Just like those IDF troopers, I wouldn't mind using a Ruger .22 in combat as long as I have my M4/M16 slung behind my shoulder, my pistol in my vest, and have similarly-armed buddies standing behind me. (It's all there in the pic)

That's a helluva lot of difference with going into harm's way on my own... at short range... with "just" a .22lr... with anemic power... a less reliable rimfire priming system... and so on... with my family huddled in the room counting on me to repel the threat and keep them alive.
BrassKnuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 21:19   #19
wtf jack
Senior Member
 
wtf jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassKnuckle View Post
with my family huddled in the room counting on me to repel the threat and keep them alive.
My family won't be huddled in the room counting on just me to repel the threat. They might just need me to help clean up the mess later. Here are the kids...

Band of Glockers

Check out the little girl shooting a 9MM..

Band of Glockers
wtf jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 21:24   #20
Javelin
Silver Membership
Got Glock?
 
Javelin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: N. Dallas
Posts: 14,638


Quote:
Originally Posted by wtf jack View Post
My family won't be huddled in the room counting on just me to repel the threat. They might just need me to help clean up the mess later. Here are the kids...

Band of Glockers

Check out the little girl shooting a 9MM..

Band of Glockers
Pink wallpaper huh?
__________________
Disclaimer: This writer is not a lawyer. This product is meant for entertainment and fan or political fiction purposes only and writer accepts no liability. All material should be considered as infotainment only. Writer does not own any characters, topics or subject matter in this story. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is for entertainment only. If rash, irritation, redness, or swelling develops, discontinue reading immediately and consult your physician.
Javelin is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 19:36.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,293
401 Members
892 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31