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Old 07-14-2002, 22:17   #1
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AZ Deer hunting..

I just found out I got drawn for Deer in AZ! Now I need to buy a rifle/optics, etc.

So, what do I need? I'm thinking this is a good excuse to get that 7mm
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Old 07-15-2002, 08:03   #2
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50 BMG revolver...
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Old 07-15-2002, 08:12   #3
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seriously tho , a 260rem, 7-08, 308 , or similar is really all you need for the puny lil'deer you get in az...
1.5 X 5 leopuld/burris /bushnell/weaver scope on a light 20" barrel carbine so you can pack it all day w/out killing yourself...
say a 5 lb rifle with another 1.5 lb for scope,rings, mounts, sling etc... it can be done...
actually never needed more than a 30-06 for any deer on this planet...
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Old 07-15-2002, 10:46   #4
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How about one of those Marlin 1895G guide guns in 45-70? Will I be engaging any mutant deer over 150-200 yards?

I guess I should have stated this is my first time hunting anything. Any help is appreciated.
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Old 07-15-2002, 10:47   #5
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congratulations. i missed on all three that i put in for deer, bear and elk. hopefully i'll get something in the spring.

as for a gun i like the rem 700 ADL. it's a no nonsense hunting rig. i have on in .30-06 i was going to use. a good scope and some rings and you're all set. i would go with a 3-9x40 zeiss conquest. but you could save a little bit of money and go with maybe a leupold VXII or VXI line scope.

the zeiss runs about $400 and so does the gun.
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Old 07-15-2002, 10:52   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by CompensateThis!
Will I be engaging any mutant deer over 150-200 yards?
sounds like you need to get started on some scouting. the range is really going to depend on the terrain. i wouldn't think that you'd be much over 200 yards, but i'm not sure where you're hunting.
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Old 07-15-2002, 11:01   #7
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Zone 1008 (My first pick!) in Flagstaff. I'ts actually RIGHT where I am considering buying some property. (Assuming everything goes to plan!)
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Old 07-15-2002, 11:12   #8
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most people use WAAAAYYYYYYYY too much gun for deer,hell my 50/110/460 will take nearly ANYTHING worth shooting and i don't think it's suitable for deer...too much meat damage...the guidegun is a great gun but overkill for deer...as my previous post said a medium caliber is all you need ( 6.5 to 7.62 non magnum ) i have hunted deer with everything from a mini-14 to a 69 cal ml...get a light rifle and a low power variable scope, it's really all you need... or if you want to get deer at extreme ranges a suggestion is enclosed...;f
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Old 07-15-2002, 11:22   #9
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The 45-70 is a great rifle for 50 to 125 yards and 150 being about the furthest I'd feel confortable taking a shot with. Bullet drop becomes a big factor with the 45/70, beyond that it's more like lobbing in mortar rounds. For a brush gun it can't be beat.

I'd go the .308 or 7mm rem route, I didn't list the .30.06 since it isn't as acurate a cartridge as the .308 and if you want more zip the 7mm has more to offer. Both are also acceptable varmint rounds if you ever feel like blasting small mammals. The Remington 700 series rifles are tried and true, but I'll also be looking at the Sig/Blaser and Sako rifles myself for next season.

As far as scopes go there are two words, Leupold and Burris.

Cheers,
Glen
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Old 07-15-2002, 11:41   #10
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Thanks for the help guys. .308 would probably be the most practical. Any thoughts on using a semi-auto for hunting? Perhaps I could use this excuse to get that DSA FAL I have been lusting over!

Other than the Rem 700, how does the Savage, Winchester, Colt and others stack up? I am looking to spend $400-600 on the gun and probably another $400 on good glass. I would probably design and build my own mounts just because I can!

OR, How about a 10mm upper for my AR?
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Old 07-15-2002, 11:54   #11
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rem 700 and win 70 and savage 110 - 116 series are all good shooters. i don't have any experience with colt. the savage will be less expensive and with a little work on the trigger is a great hunting gun.

my rem 700 .30-06 shoots about 1MOA, my dad's win 70 in .25-06 shoots about the same and my savage 12 in .22-250 shoots close to .5 moa. so accuracy is about the same in all. quality is about the same too. my old man's winchester is nice and pretty with a nice wood stock, while mine are black composite, but a pretty gun doesn't help you're shooting.

i'll bring my rifles to the GT shoot on saturday if you're gonna be there. i still have to sight in my new scope on the savage, but it'll give you something to check out.
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Old 07-15-2002, 11:57   #12
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comp, dont rule out browning a bolt II you can get em in all those calibers.
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Old 07-15-2002, 12:12   #13
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I will be at the shoot, Mpol. I would appreciate looking at anything you are willing to bring!

Billy- I haven't ruled out anything yet!

Howa bouta Howa? http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...p?Item=4611223
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Old 07-15-2002, 13:57   #14
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comp, i know absolutely nothing about howa rifles, however it looks pretty sweet and seems to be priced right, and i know your into camo.
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Old 07-15-2002, 14:28   #15
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howa is a damm good gun for the $$$...do some searches and see how many of your "big" gun companies rifles are built by howa.... oh ,yeah ...an fnfal para carbine makes a wonderful deer gun... kali won't let us hunt with them anymore ,so they sit in the safe...;Q
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Old 07-15-2002, 17:24   #16
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Might I suggest one of the Ruger compact bolt rifles
in 308. My choice in optics would be a 2x7 loopie. It comes
with rings and they are great little guns.
Anyone who has ever seen what a 30-06 will do to
a 160lb whitetail (under 100 yds) knows that 30-06 is too much gun...and anyone who's seen the same 160 lb whitetail shot with
a .223 knows it ain't enough gun. A .30 caliber bullet at
moderate velocity is a proven whitetail getter. If you go
with a 45-70 or similiar you will inevitably see
a nice buck at 250 yds and be tempted to waste ammo
shooting at him. Save yourself the trouble and get a
.30 caliber rifle and use hunting ammo that the gun shoots
accurately.
Have fun and always be sure of your target and whats beyond.
When it dought, don't take the shot. .02 derived from many a
day in the woods.
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Old 07-15-2002, 22:07   #17
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What kind of deer, if its coues deer. I suggest a B-52 and begin carpet bombing wide swaths of Arizona. You may eventually hit on. Maybe...

Serioulsy though, I did get the worse unit in the state to hunt those, so better luck to you regardless of the type.

Do you envision hunting a lot? Want one rifle to hunt everything? Like to target practice? How much do you want to spend with scope?

.308 is the only hunting round that also lets you shoot cheap surplus. You can also hunt everything short of Moose and Brown Bear on this continent with it.

If you want a two gun aresnal to handle everything without overdoing it on the smaller critters, I suggest a .280 Remington or smaller for Deer and smaller animals. A 30/06 or larger for everything else...

For guns, please buy American. If we stop buying American made long arms, there will be no more gun industry left in this country.

And yes this coming from someone on Glocktalk. Longarms are a different matter, Americans build plenty of fine longarms that are competitive with foreign offerings...
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Old 07-16-2002, 22:59   #18
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Remington Pump

You could try a pump 30-06. I've got a Remington that has taken 2 elk in 2 years. One shot each. One shot was a little over 125 yards and the other was a neck shot inside of 30 yards. The 180 grain bullet delivered where and how it was supposed to, one shot one kill. Different loads for different sized animals.
So now I try with the bow and arrow. Wish me luck in 6A south for a clean cow shot.

Thom
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Old 07-19-2002, 18:07   #19
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if you were serious about a marlin 45-70, you might want to check the ballistics on a 444. only problem is the 444's don't come in s.s. good luck on your first hunt!
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Old 07-20-2002, 14:58   #20
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You asked for our personal opinions, so here's mine, which I've gotten from 38 years of deer hunting. The best all around deer caliber is .308. A good pick for a .308 rifle is the Remington Model 7. Light, short, and accurate. The Savage bolt-guns are very accurate and priced well. If you want a semi-auto, get a Browning. Remingtons are OK, too. I prefer the Remingtons, but that choice is mainly because the Remington spare magazines cost about 1/3 that of the Browning's, 10 rounders are available (for purposes other than deer hunting) and magazine swaps are much easier and quicker.

If you'll be hunting in terrain where shots over 100 yards are possible, you'll need good quality glass (you already know that). Most guys say Leupold is the best. I'd rather have a Nikon. The Nikons I've seen were actually much better in low light than Leupolds, and I'd choose one of the Nikons over a Leupold... but you can't go wrong with either.

My own .308 deer rifle is a Remington 742 carbine, synthetic stock, Williams peep sight on the rear, and fire-sight on the front. I hunt where there's very heavy cover, shooting distances very rarely exceed 75 yards, and there's usually lots of snow (which ALWAYS finds it's way onto the scope lens). Bad combination for scope use, so I prefer peep sights on a rifle. I use my own handloads, but for factory ammo, Federal Premium 165gr (for both .308 & .30-06) is the most accurate I've ever seen, in any rifle. My .243, .280, .308, and .30-06 ALL shoot their best with Federal Premium.
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Old 07-30-2002, 19:46   #21
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Comp, Flagstaff is an awesome area. I saw my first elk there while working at Navajo Army Depot Activity (NADA) in Williams.
While training at NADA I met a soldier that was from Jerome. He and his father racked up a fair number of deer & elk over the years using old Winchester model 100's in .243 and .308.
I'd opt for either the .308 or 7mm-08.
Good hunting!
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Old 07-31-2002, 13:55   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by 45acp4me
I didn't list the .30.06 since it isn't as acurate a cartridge as the .308
Crock o' crap. You, me, comp, nor Jethro will notice any inherent difference in accuracy between these two cartridges.

In theory there could be some because of the shorter necked .308. But it is pretty funny that any non-world class shooter thinks they will ever notice the difference.

Having said that. Comp, get any of the favorites. .243, .270, 7 mauser, 7 mag, .308, .30-06, .300mag, etc. Figure you just need a relatively long-range flat shooter for those deserts.

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Old 08-01-2002, 06:56   #23
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CompensateThis!, it's nice to see this type of "tread" from you... & to think, all this time I thought you were a "bunny humping", "tree hugger" from Kalifornia & now it turns out that you were just a "bunny killing", "tree cutter" Arizona Chameleon this whole time!

I like the T/C Encore... The accuracy of a single shot break-open action is hard to beat. After your initial purchase, all you need to do later on to have a whole new caliber is to just buy a new barrel. There's something like 28 different calibers available now, anything from 22-250 to a 45-70.

I think the .270 might be a good option for you & of course the 30.06 is just hard to beat for an "all around".

As far as the term "over kill" goes... I don't believe in "over kill", I only believe in "under kill". I hunt with a 12 gauge with a .50 caliber sabot traveling at 1,400+ fps. A "No. 2 pencil" eraser will disappear into the hollow point crater in this thing! Most shots are 50 yards on down & 50 yards is a pretty long shot in MI. If you hint a deer in the right "kill zone", what meat would you wreck? I've literally seen "fist sized" exit wounds in deer with zero meat loss. I say zero meat loss because there is so little meat in between the ribs in a deer that it takes much more time then its worth to retrieve it.

You get 99% of your meat from a deer with it's back legs, shoulders/front legs, neck, back straps & tender loins... none of which is a good place to shoot a deer.
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Old 08-01-2002, 07:49   #24
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The best option for a new hunter is to buy a popular round and then love that round. About all the cartridges named will do just fine. As far as a 30-06 not being accurate, its missleading. I does have more drop than a 270, 7 mag, 300 mag, but its a consistant drop. You learn the ballistic charts for the round, then make your own and you are good to go. Sight your gun in at 200 yards and you'll be able to hold on with any of the 308 or 30-06 based cartridges out to about 250-300 yards (depending on which round). If your a new hunter that just set a limit and dont exceed it. My uncle constantly tries for deer at over 500 yards with his 06 and never comes close. This is a terrible attitude, and its very disappointing to winess. Just learn whatever weapon you decide to get and learn its limitations.
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