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Old 06-30-2008, 17:32   #1
ugly8604
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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Celox?

Hey guys, question for you-
I'm a police officer in a medium sized city, where we have our fair share of shootings and stabbings. A couple of my partners have started carrying this stuff called Celox. Apparently it's some kindo f grain substance that is supposed to obsorb into a major wound and stop arterial bleeding within minutes. I think it sounds like a great idea, BUT, will this stuff affect your job in a negative way? I don't want to do more harm than good.

Heres a link:
http://www.celoxmedical.com/?page=tinfo
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Old 07-01-2008, 20:22   #2
Splanchnic
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Seems to be good stuff. There isn't a ton of real-world use with it but it is similar to another product (Hemcon) which is extensively used by the military.


I would (and do) recommend it for police officers, especially tactical officers. There is little to no harm using it and it potentially can save a life.
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Old 07-02-2008, 07:18   #3
FiremanMike
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Before you get that stuff you need to sit down with your medical director (if you don't have one, get one) and do some heavy research. Those powders, while life saving, cause thermal damage due to the chemical reaction that occurs. There are reports that many times this thermal damage to the tissue requires HEAVY debridement and can even lead to amputation of the effected limb.

There was, apparently, one manufacturer that claimed this didn't occur with their product, this may be that product..

In my honest opinion, as an EMS instructor for 4 years, and a paramedic for 8, carry a pair of gloves and some trauma dressings and hold direct pressure until we can arrive.

Remember the order of bleeding control

1. Direct Pressure
2. Elevation
3. Pressure Point (nearest artery)
4. Tourniquet (remember to only tie tight enough to slow bleeding to a trickle, don't completely occlude bleeding)
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:12   #4
Splanchnic
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Celox is not exothermic (it won't heat up), neither will any of the current products. Simple pressure and the other methods don't always work, especially with high-velocity wounds to large vessels.

I agree with talking with your medical director. Having said that, I think you are OK using Celox and, in fact, I would recommend carrying some.
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:05   #5
D25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanMike View Post

1. Direct Pressure
2. Elevation
3. Pressure Point (nearest artery)
4. Tourniquet (remember to only tie tight enough to slow bleeding to a trickle, don't completely occlude bleeding)
PHTLS now advises skipping steps 2 and 3 due to lack of clinical evidence that they are effective in slowing blood loss, plus TQs recent extensive and effective use in the Mid East(- your local protocols may vary!). But I agree, direct pressure then TQ is the way to go. If you are dealing with a complex high energy wound to an extremity, a TQ is really going to be the only option, and celox, et al, are contraindicated for abdominal wounds due to debridement issues, if I remember correctly. So that leaves the narrow class of very proximal extremity injuries, that you can't get a TQ above, where these powders could be more effective that the alternative- because there isn't any alternative in this scenerio. It sure seems like a very narrow application, but if you're trying to cover all of your bases, I suppose it is good, as long as you know its limitations.
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Old 07-14-2008, 04:06   #6
caneau
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QuikClot is probably the most popular of the hemostatic agents on the market right now. I've seen it work well in simulation and heard its praises, never tried it though. It is exothermic but they have a newer version that heats up significantly less.

The good part about QuikClot is it is NOT a powder you sprinkle on. Instead, it stays in its little pouch the entire time, so debridement is far less of an issue.
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Old 07-14-2008, 15:31   #7
Hedo1
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I recently completed a non credit class that dealt with combat type medicine.

After the class I bought two pouches of Celox. One for me and one for my son.

I would try and find a bloodstopper type bandage with this material already in it. I think it's called an "Israeli Combat Dressing" but don't quote me on that. Someone mentioned it in the class but I haven't been able to find one.
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Old 07-14-2008, 16:10   #8
FiremanMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D25 View Post
PHTLS now advises skipping steps 2 and 3 due to lack of clinical evidence that they are effective in slowing blood loss, plus TQs recent extensive and effective use in the Mid East(- your local protocols may vary!). But I agree, direct pressure then TQ is the way to go. If you are dealing with a complex high energy wound to an extremity, a TQ is really going to be the only option, and celox, et al, are contraindicated for abdominal wounds due to debridement issues, if I remember correctly. So that leaves the narrow class of very proximal extremity injuries, that you can't get a TQ above, where these powders could be more effective that the alternative- because there isn't any alternative in this scenerio. It sure seems like a very narrow application, but if you're trying to cover all of your bases, I suppose it is good, as long as you know its limitations.
All of the above is news to me. I will do my research next time.
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Originally Posted by ateamer
They made bad choices and expect us to pay the price? I don't think so, Tim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShallNotBeInfringed
I humbly submit I have over one million Concealed Carry hours. First license is from early 80's.
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Old 07-14-2008, 16:39   #9
D25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiremanMike View Post
All of the above is news to me. I will do my research next time.
It's a darn near full-time job just trying to keep track of the changes in PHTLS, ACLS and PALS!
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