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Old 08-09-2008, 14:22   #1
SVTNate
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Which .40 S&W Federal HST round for carry?

I just bought my first .40, a new Glock 23. I need to pick up carry ammo for it.

My preference is Federal HST. I can get 165gr. or 180gr. ammo. I know exactly ZERO, NADA, NOTHING about .40 ammo. So, out of the G23, which would you choose for CCW use?
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Old 08-09-2008, 14:31   #2
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YES!!!!





Either.. My likes is the 155 or 165 but Either. I sometimes carry the 135gr as well.
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Old 08-09-2008, 14:41   #3
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From ATK's ballistic workshop results I've worked up the following -
Federal 40S&W HST, 165gr, 1130fps, KE=468, P=14.00, E=.75, 5.3ci, 637psi
Federal 40S&W HST, 180gr, 1010fps, KE=408, P=13.40, E=.77, 5.6ci, 582psi
The two are VERY close in performance! It may be just as well to flip a coin and not look back.

Personally I'ld choose -
DT 40S&W Gold Dot, 155gr, 1275fps, KE=559, P=13.00, E=.76, 5.4ci, 825psi
- before either of the other two. To me, penetration/expansion/wound volume are a wash, but BPW jumps up quite a bit. And DT is just as reasonably priced and comes in boxes of 50 also.

All info based on 4" barrels.
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Old 08-09-2008, 14:51   #4
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when my g23 is in 40cal config, i use p40hst3.
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Old 08-09-2008, 15:47   #5
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Old 08-09-2008, 17:16   #6
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Originally Posted by Ok Prdator View Post
YES!!!!





Either.. My likes is the 155 or 165 but Either. I sometimes carry the 135gr as well.
Exactly what conditions would cause you to switch from 155/165 to a 135gr???
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Old 08-09-2008, 18:23   #7
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for .40 HST i would go with the 180 grain
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Old 08-09-2008, 20:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastDraw McGraw View Post
Exactly what conditions would cause you to switch from 155/165 to a 135gr???
I can not think of any advantage. Although there are somke velocity junkies out there that pick ammo from those numbers instead of performance.
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Old 08-09-2008, 20:31   #9
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I can not think of any advantage. Although there are somke velocity junkies out there that pick ammo from those numbers instead of performance.
"Those numbers" are performance. What does the 135gr load not give you that others do? More penetration? Isn't 12" enough? Guess everyones mileage varies a tad.
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Old 08-09-2008, 20:34   #10
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Congrats on the Glock 23. I have both 165gr and 180gr HST's, but I tend to favor the 180gr HSTs when the time to choose comes around.
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Old 08-09-2008, 20:36   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTNate View Post
I just bought my first .40, a new Glock 23. I need to pick up carry ammo for it.

My preference is Federal HST. I can get 165gr. or 180gr. ammo. I know exactly ZERO, NADA, NOTHING about .40 ammo. So, out of the G23, which would you choose for CCW use?
My choices in .40S&W are:

Hornady XTP (TAP/FPD/CQ) Either 180gr or 155gr
Reminton Golden Saber Bonded 165gr or 180gr
Speer Gold dot 180gr or 165gr (not the LE 165gr version)
Maybe the Ranger T, depending on whether or not the "enhanced" change has been made.

I'm not really big on HST yet for lack of street data, but if I were forced to choose, I'd pick the 180gr version because underpenetration is my main concern with this round.
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Old 08-09-2008, 20:49   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
"Those numbers" are performance. :

If that was true in all cases than Lamas,Fang-face/Air-freedom and RCBD would all be the best rounds available.

As far as penetration it is a crap shoot. 12' may or may not work on any given shooting. Most official testing is done in calibrated jello. This will show what a bullet might do in nearly idea circumstances.
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Old 08-09-2008, 20:59   #13
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Originally Posted by hotpig View Post
If that was true in all cases than Lamas,Fang-face/Air-freedom and RCBD would all be the best rounds available.

As far as penetration it is a crap shoot. 12' may or may not work on any given shooting. Most official testing is done in calibrated jello. This will show what a bullet might do in nearly idea circumstances.
You would compare frangible ammo to nonfrangible ammo? I wouldn't, nor do I know of anyone else who would.

Otherwise, a round like the 135gr Nosler in 40S&W or 10mm can be an excellent choice for something like home/apartment defense depending on one's specific risk assessments.
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Old 08-09-2008, 21:21   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
You would compare frangible ammo to nonfrangible ammo? I wouldn't, nor do I know of anyone else who would.

Otherwise, a round like the 135gr Nosler in 40S&W or 10mm can be an excellent choice for something like home/apartment defense depending on one's specific risk assessments.

Some hard core velocity junkies only look at those numbers. They could care less what kind or brand of bullets they are.

Many people have little quirks. I would rather have a 9mm with a 115+P+ for home/apartment than the ones you have listed. I would rather carry a 40 cal 180gr than a 45 with less than 230gr. A 9mm rather than a 40 with less than 180gr.

The 10mm is on my list of calibers to pick up when I find a deal on one. I know if I wait long enough I will have a customer trade one in on a more common caliber pistol.
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Old 08-09-2008, 21:34   #15
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Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
"Those numbers" are performance. What does the 135gr load not give you that others do? More penetration? Isn't 12" enough? Guess everyones mileage varies a tad.

In those areas that I would worry about to much penatration( hotels for one example. Every one has there ideas on SD ammo, I've carried 135gr Corbons and DT for quite some time and have now tested the HST's and like them all...
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Old 08-09-2008, 22:58   #16
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ALL of the HST .40s are good. Try a box or two in each weight, pick whichever one your pistol shoots best and call it a day.
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Old 08-10-2008, 02:44   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpig View Post
Some hard core velocity junkies only look at those numbers. They could care less what kind or brand of bullets they are.

Many people have little quirks. I would rather have a 9mm with a 115+P+ for home/apartment than the ones you have listed. I would rather carry a 40 cal 180gr than a 45 with less than 230gr. A 9mm rather than a 40 with less than 180gr.

The 10mm is on my list of calibers to pick up when I find a deal on one. I know if I wait long enough I will have a customer trade one in on a more common caliber pistol.
I see what you're saying.
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Old 08-10-2008, 04:00   #18
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"Those numbers" are performance. What does the 135gr load not give you that others do? More penetration? Isn't 12" enough? Guess everyones mileage varies a tad.
Sometimes the 12" in gel may not be enough DEPENDING on the actual bullet constuction.

For example: I'd much rather see a sturdy 135gr 'bonded' bullet in .40S&W than a heavily fragmenting one.

Penetration in gel doesn't take into account more common intermediate barriers like arms, legs & bones...you know, body parts.

The same 135gr high velocity round in a fragmenting version may not be able to penetrate enough to hit any vitals if it must first breech an ulna, whereas a bonded version of the same bullet might go just deep enough.

I believe in this theory although I honestly do not have much study related basis to fall back on.....It would be interesting to collect that specific data, or even know how/where to collect it.

glock20c10mm,
You seem to pretty up on your performance numbers so maybe you can help me out here.....
I'd like to see a comprehensive list of .40S&W 135gr performance numbers, specifically penetration numbers through the various accepted media.
Of course links to gel photos would just tickle me pink.
...and by "comprehensive" I mean more than one bullet type/design.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:43   #19
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Originally Posted by SVTNate View Post
I just bought my first .40, a new Glock 23. I need to pick up carry ammo for it.

My preference is Federal HST. I can get 165gr. or 180gr. ammo. I know exactly ZERO, NADA, NOTHING about .40 ammo. So, out of the G23, which would you choose for CCW use?

180gr. Data in signature. Also, as a bonus, the 180gr has less felt recoil in my G23.
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Old 08-10-2008, 15:01   #20
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Penetration in gel doesn't take into account more common intermediate barriers like arms, legs & bones...you know, body parts.
I can't say for certain, as I'm not an "expert", but I would argue your statement from the standpoint that the average human body is 9.5" deep, front to back through the thoratic cavity. Therefore I would suggest that 12" would be enough on average to reach any VITAL organ or structure EVEN IF the bullet had to pass through an outstretched arm or whatever first (I don't care if the bullet makes it out the back side of the BG).

I realize some people prefer to plan for extremes and would just as soon be using a bullet rated for closer to 18" penetration in gel so they have the drugged up +400lb biker BGs covered. I'll stick to at least 12" penetration with an actually usefull PBPW at least 50% of the time. I tend to stay out of the way of crazed +400lb biker BGs (plus they can't run faster than me), and if I end up protecting someone else from one I've usually got my spare mag loaded up with DT 10mm 200gr XTPs @ around 1200fps (because of hiking in the mountains where the little black bears and big kitty cats hang), so that will hopefully do it.
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Old 08-10-2008, 15:05   #21
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glock20c10mm,
You seem to pretty up on your performance numbers so maybe you can help me out here.....
I'd like to see a comprehensive list of .40S&W 135gr performance numbers, specifically penetration numbers through the various accepted media.
Of course links to gel photos would just tickle me pink.
...and by "comprehensive" I mean more than one bullet type/design.
I'ld like to see it too! It'ld tickle me pink too! But all I've ever come across are Double Tap's numbers. The only bullet makers producing 135gr 40cal/10mm bullets are: Nosler, Sierra, and Cor-Bon. And out of those, only Cor-Bon loads their own ammo(which is waaaaaaay too expensive!). And then of course DT uses the Nosler bullet.

Sorry I couldn't help you there bro,
Craig
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Old 08-10-2008, 15:36   #22
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I carry 180 grain HSTs in my USPc. I tend to stick to the weights that cartridges were originally designed for.

9mm - 124 grains
.40 S&W - 180 grains
.45 ACP - 230 grains
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Old 08-10-2008, 15:59   #23
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This one's a no-brainer.
Get a 50rd box of each and see which is more accurate from your -23

Excellent choice of ammo!
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Old 08-10-2008, 16:36   #24
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180gr HST
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Old 08-12-2008, 19:23   #25
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I managed to snatch up 600 rounds of an experimental Federal 135 gr .40 S&W HST load. The Hollowpoint on this round is absolutely HUGE, as you can see in this photo:


Caliber Corner



Here is another photo of this experimental Federal HST load, comparing it to a Winchester Ranger T 165 gr .40 S&W round, which is on the right:


Caliber Corner


Again, you can easily see how exceptionally large and deep the hollowpoint is on this round.

I have no idea why Federal never decided to bring this load to market, and only experimented with it.

.
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