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Old 10-01-2008, 10:12   #221
farnhamj
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Wrong - profs arent polluting, they are exposing the ass of the Bush admins past 8 years as if there was ever any real need for further explanation.

wrong again. from personal experience, I have watched many profs use their classrooms, from algebra to political sci, as their personal pulpit to spread their political views with young moldable minds being brainwashed into believing the hog wash.
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:16   #222
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Yup. I think I will vote again....HELL NO!!!
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Old 10-01-2008, 10:33   #223
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You just said that "It is common practice" to vote present, yet they don't vote present... so did he not show up or just not vote? I don't understand. Please Clarify. Thanks.
Let's start over.
Obama served in the Illinois legislature (Senate) for seven years, from 1997-2004. During his tenure he voted over 4,000 times.
The Illinois legislature has an odd system of voting that allows members to vote "yes", "no" or "present". Generally, a present vote is used when a member formerly supported a bill but no longer does based on amendments to the bill, or other tactical reasons. Sometimes large blocks of legislators vote present. Sometimes only one will.
Of Obama's 4,000 plus votes in the Illinois Sentate, he voted "present" 129 times, or roughly 3% of the time. One source for this information can be found at: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...present_votes/

Now, about the US Senate. There is no such thing as a "present" vote. The GOP tacticians who write the talking points that fellow GT members keep repeating know this, but they spread it anyway. So we hear the lies here, even though the GT members apparently don't know any better.
I hope that clarified things.
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Old 10-01-2008, 11:35   #224
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Not really, its more like we believe and understand the stance of the candidate we support as a fix to the **** the Republican party has presided over and allowed to go to hell. Its more like that.
REALLY? Funny...I can't find a thing on what he really stands for...Can you explain???

lets just start with something simple:

1. Guncontrol...What "Changes" does he see in our futures
2. The war on terror...just in general terms...how would he change our engagement policies for the better?
3. Social Security how can he change it for the better without taxing all of us.
4. The "Bail-out", what kind of change would he enact to benefit the taxpayer...we already know what his community organization has done with the housing market
5. His wifes view of America and how he can change them cause they are dead wrong.
6. His own ministers view and how he plans to help rev. wright change his attitudes.
7. What Change he feels is needed in America? What areas, what sectors etc...
8. His view and ideas on islam and the western world, and how to "Change" what we've been doing.
9. His ideas on becoming energy sufficient and how he will effect a change in that industry that will not go into our pockets even more.


I can go on and on because I have yet to hear one plan or idea...lots of talk about change but nothing except empty words....
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Old 10-01-2008, 12:18   #225
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Originally Posted by cookekdjr View Post
A challenge to you: Name one day, ONE DAY, ONE DAY when Obama voted "present" in the US Senate.
If you can't do it, take it back. Put up or shut up.

You ask for it.... in the NYT no less. 130 times.... Present!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us...s/20obama.html




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Old 10-01-2008, 12:20   #226
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Originally Posted by ldcarson View Post
REALLY? Funny...I can't find a thing on what he really stands for...Can you explain???

lets just start with something simple:

1. Guncontrol...What "Changes" does he see in our futures
2. The war on terror...just in general terms...how would he change our engagement policies for the better?
3. Social Security how can he change it for the better without taxing all of us.
4. The "Bail-out", what kind of change would he enact to benefit the taxpayer...we already know what his community organization has done with the housing market
5. His wifes view of America and how he can change them cause they are dead wrong.
6. His own ministers view and how he plans to help rev. wright change his attitudes.
7. What Change he feels is needed in America? What areas, what sectors etc...
8. His view and ideas on islam and the western world, and how to "Change" what we've been doing.
9. His ideas on becoming energy sufficient and how he will effect a change in that industry that will not go into our pockets even more.


I can go on and on because I have yet to hear one plan or idea...lots of talk about change but nothing except empty words....
Stand down damn you! He has a plan, he just isn't going to share it with mere peons before they put him in office. If you want to know what he plans to do, elect him...then he will show the world what his plan has been all along! /sarcasm...I'd like to hear what his plan is too, I just don't think we will because his followers are all too willing to accept his mesmorizing tone of "ums, uhs, huhs, and so" that he peppers throughout his speeches.
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Old 10-01-2008, 12:43   #227
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Originally Posted by farnhamj View Post
I am assuming you are military in backround from your pic, and I am amazed that you can back someone who says that your fighting and courage and putting yourself on the line along with everyone else in the military. I don't know if you are in Iraq or were or whatever, but backing someone who says this war was a mistake would make me upset. He is basically saying that all you do and all you live for and believe is a mistake. Doesn't sound like anyone I would like in the white house.
farnham - I am from a Military family, and I am not "in" the Army yet, persay. I am in my senior year of Varsity Army ROTC, finishing up my masters. I will be "in" the Army as a 2LT here in about 8 months. I am VERY excited about my career as an Army officer.

I am not in Iraq. Never led anyone to believe that. That would have no affect on my belief that the war has been proven to be a mistake.

One, Obama isnt saying that what anyone in the military "believes" in is a mistake. It is the duty and job of all soldiers to do as they are told. I will go to Iraq and do what I am ordered from my company and battalion commanders, no questions asked. However, that doesnt mean that I DO or have to agree with the reasons we are there. The mark of a good soldier and officer is one that can take orders from superior officers, delegate orders to his subordinates, work in close quarters with his senior NCO's using their experience, and not influx HIS OPINION OR FEELINGS on the matter. Look at many great Confederate Civil War Generals. They did as they were commanded when, for example, at Gettysburg, LTG Longstreet didnt think that Lee's men could take Cemetary Ridge but he ordered the attack anyways because he was told to.

My policy doesnt have to line up with a bunch of hard-line right wing nut jobs. It also doesnt have to line up with far left wing idiots. My policies and beliefs line up more left than center, but far from being labeled "FAR LEFT." Being a liberal isnt a bad thing. Liberalism is the principle by which this nation was built upon. This nation was founded on change and breaking-away from the traditional way of doing things. That is liberalism in is purest form. The problem is that many conservatives use slander as a means of trying to justify their beliefs and damn 'liberal' as being some anti-American word. The fact is that Liberal is a word that is very close to this nation and has been seen many times in the past in the lives of many great Americans.

I support all people in the military. They set their personal lives aside, as I will be doing shortly, to serve this nation. They do what they do without question. However, just because you are in the military, does NOT mean you must agree with an extremely flawed and planned mainstay/withdrawal. We are all Americans and love this nation. Liberals want what is best for the USA and so do conservatives, we just have different ideas on how to attain it. I support Barrack Obama because I believe that he has a plan for withdrawal from this War, a plan that will allow our extremely strained military to bounce back from the wars for the past 7 years. I support him because I think that he wants what is best for this nation. I believe that the federal government should be held accountable for the things we elect them to do. I think that he is the face of change from the past 8 years and that is ultimately why I am voting for him.

Last edited by meshmdz; 10-01-2008 at 12:48..
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Old 10-01-2008, 12:52   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldcarson View Post
REALLY? Funny...I can't find a thing on what he really stands for...Can you explain???

lets just start with something simple:

1. Guncontrol...What "Changes" does he see in our futures
2. The war on terror...just in general terms...how would he change our engagement policies for the better?
3. Social Security how can he change it for the better without taxing all of us.
4. The "Bail-out", what kind of change would he enact to benefit the taxpayer...we already know what his community organization has done with the housing market
5. His wifes view of America and how he can change them cause they are dead wrong.
6. His own ministers view and how he plans to help rev. wright change his attitudes.
7. What Change he feels is needed in America? What areas, what sectors etc...
8. His view and ideas on islam and the western world, and how to "Change" what we've been doing.
9. His ideas on becoming energy sufficient and how he will effect a change in that industry that will not go into our pockets even more.


I can go on and on because I have yet to hear one plan or idea...lots of talk about change but nothing except empty words....
I cant speak for Senator Obama but his views on the issues can be found here.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

But seriously, you already are set on NOT supporting Obama so what difference does it make if I post a response for every question you asked me, like I would know his thoughts on your questions.
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Old 10-01-2008, 14:28   #229
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Originally Posted by meshmdz View Post
I cant speak for Senator Obama but his views on the issues can be found here.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

But seriously, you already are set on NOT supporting Obama so what difference does it make if I post a response for every question you asked me, like I would know his thoughts on your questions.

Been there, done that, nothing in that site answers any questions...the term smoking mirrors comes to mind. I really didn't expect you or any Obama supporter to answer, because really...there isn't one, and thats because he has no PLAN for the change that he wants to effect.

I am conservative...not ashamed of it either, but I am also not happy with McCain...I think we could do better than we have. But he is our candidate, so I will vote the party line in the absence of any other plan. I am here in Iraq working on a PRT (Provincial Reconstruction team), I came because I believed that what we did (Coming to Iraq) was and still is the right thing to do. Thats not to say mistakes haven't been made, sure they have, but in the end, I think we got it right. We've done what we sat out to do. Iraq is much calmer and more at peace right now than it ever has been, and all this after Mr. Harry Ried said "The war is lost" This is what all the Democrats don't get...We've done it, as Gen. Patreaus and President Bush laid out for the surge. If it was easy work, we wouldn't have to be here, but its not easy, and its damn hard work, particularly when you have other outside countries interfering...BUT, at the end of the day, the democrats were wrong, Ried and Pelosi were wrong, Obama was wrong, Kerry was wrong...They were all wrong...and isn't interesting how not one of them has apologized or even wants to bring it up and talk about it? America doesn't forget, and I believe that come election day, you Dems are going to be in for a big surprise yet again....

peace to you my brother in arms...Gods speed
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Old 10-01-2008, 16:04   #230
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I have absolutely NO faith in Barack Hussein Obama. I think he will take our guns, raise our taxes (all you'll have left is "change"!) and push this country into Socialism or close to it. It is NOT the governments job to provide everyone housing, health care, jobs, retirement, etc. The National Government should provide for our national defense, protect our borders, stabilize our currency, and stay out of our lives! We are rapidly abolishing the American Spirit of independence, self-sufficiency, hard work, and faith in God. BHO, and his ilk, and his philosophy, are major contributors to this demise. Having said all that, I think WAY TOO MANY Americans are stupid sheep that will believe what he says and will vote for him because they don't like George Bush. For that reason, he will win. Okay, people, George Bush is not running again! We're going to have change - but the question is: what kind? Remember, the people of Russia wanted change in 1918, the people of Cuba wanted change in 1952.

BTW, I am tired of automatically being assumed I'm racist because I don't support BHO. Race has nothing to do with it. I don't like his politics, his policies, his voting record ("Present") and what he stands for.
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Old 10-01-2008, 20:10   #231
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Sig, I am not trying to set anyone straight. All I am saying is that McCain's plans do not make sense economically. He wants to cut taxes by cutting port barrel spending when port barrel spending cuts completely wouldnt be able to fund the tax cuts he is talking about. Every person that I see on here that has been a "mccain gun owner/supporter" never says ANYTHING about anything other than the fact that he is better than Obama on ONE issue. I dont care if you vote for Obama or not. I just believe that it is ignorant to vote for a candidate based on 1 issue... and some of the comments like "we better be armed when nov. 5th rolls around" are just laughable.
First of all, it's "pork barrel" spending, not port. I am not a 100% die-hard McCain supporter, but agree with most of his beliefs and I could certainly be considered a 1 issue voter. Now that I know that I am "ignorant" for being a one issue voter maybe I can move on. I never said anything about being armed on the 5th of November. I can only hope that if gun confiscation ever does happen (I don't think it will, at least not in this generation), I really hope you are one of the Army officers tasked with leading soldiers to accomplish that task.
I am basically done trying to argue with you. Guys like cooke and yourself have your beliefs, which you consider to be the only true "correct" ideas. That is truly an elitist position to take, akin to considering anyone who doesn't follow you to be an ignorant idiot. You have a lot of growing up to do.

Last edited by SigPro2022; 10-01-2008 at 20:13.. Reason: re-phrased final sentence.
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Old 10-01-2008, 22:20   #232
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Sig, I am not claiming that you are an idiot. I am sure that you are an intelligent fellow and Im glad we are both on GT. I am sorry if I offended you. You have your opinions and thoughts and I have mine.
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Old 10-01-2008, 22:22   #233
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Originally Posted by ldcarson View Post
Been there, done that, nothing in that site answers any questions...the term smoking mirrors comes to mind. I really didn't expect you or any Obama supporter to answer, because really...there isn't one, and thats because he has no PLAN for the change that he wants to effect.

I am conservative...not ashamed of it either, but I am also not happy with McCain...I think we could do better than we have. But he is our candidate, so I will vote the party line in the absence of any other plan. I am here in Iraq working on a PRT (Provincial Reconstruction team), I came because I believed that what we did (Coming to Iraq) was and still is the right thing to do. Thats not to say mistakes haven't been made, sure they have, but in the end, I think we got it right. We've done what we sat out to do. Iraq is much calmer and more at peace right now than it ever has been, and all this after Mr. Harry Ried said "The war is lost" This is what all the Democrats don't get...We've done it, as Gen. Patreaus and President Bush laid out for the surge. If it was easy work, we wouldn't have to be here, but its not easy, and its damn hard work, particularly when you have other outside countries interfering...BUT, at the end of the day, the democrats were wrong, Ried and Pelosi were wrong, Obama was wrong, Kerry was wrong...They were all wrong...and isn't interesting how not one of them has apologized or even wants to bring it up and talk about it? America doesn't forget, and I believe that come election day, you Dems are going to be in for a big surprise yet again....

peace to you my brother in arms...Gods speed
ldcarson - I respect your thoughts and opinion. Godspeed brother. I will be over there within the next year or sometime soon thereafter. What is your MOS by the way?
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Old 10-02-2008, 08:14   #234
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Old 10-02-2008, 08:31   #235
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However, that doesnt mean that I DO or have to agree with the reasons we are there.
This scares me...You would actually take a job and perform that job and the duties involved even if you possibly don't agree with the tasks and reasons behind the tasks. Is this a hypothetical or are you actually willing to be a Lemming?

Quote:
Being a liberal isnt a bad thing. Liberalism is the principle by which this nation was built upon. This nation was founded on change and breaking-away from the traditional way of doing things.
Actually one of the formost things this Country was build on was religion, Christianity to be exacy and come hell or high water I am not voting for a self proclaimed MUSLIM. I can't vote for someone with family ties to terrorists(whom he supports financially and emotionally) and who's "faith"followers caused the infamous 9/11. That's just me and we all hove opinions and we all have a vote.


Quote:
I support all people in the military. They set their personal lives aside, as I will be doing shortly, to serve this nation.
And I appreciate everything that everyone in the military is doing and sacrificing.

Quote:
I support Barrack Obama because I believe that he has a plan for withdrawal from this War, a plan that will allow our extremely strained military to bounce back from the wars for the past 7 years. I support him because I think that he wants what is best for this nation.
Do you honestly think that he will accomplish that. NO. He is all talk and nothing will be accopmlished. That is because the President doesn't call the shots on that issue. It is the Congress and the Senate who vote on it.

Quote:
I believe that the federal government should be held accountable for the things we elect them to do. I think that he is the face of change from the past 8 years and that is ultimately why I am voting for him.
I agree that we need a change. And the biggest one needs to be a republican majority congress and senete because they are the ones that actually vote and make the decisions. You sound like a very intellegent person, allbeit misguided and/or brainwashed...IMHO
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Old 10-02-2008, 09:21   #236
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Actually one of the formost things this Country was build on was religion, Christianity to be exacy and come hell or high water I am not voting for a self proclaimed MUSLIM. I can't vote for someone with family ties to terrorists(whom he supports financially and emotionally) and who's "faith"followers caused the infamous 9/11. That's just me and we all hove opinions and we all have a vote.
No, this country was built as a response to New England theocracy. In other words, we have this country as a reaction against Christian Heritage, not as an intentional outgrowth of the church (except maybe Baptists, who were strongly against church/state affiliation, and stood opposed to the Constitution without the 1st Amendment; the Baptists founded Rhode Island to grant freedom of religion for all).
Baptists were also influential in article six of the constituion which reads: no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Most of the founding fathers were deists, who did not believe in the divinity of Christ, or were atheists. I understand the Christian heritage misunderstanding is widespread because of a massive misinformation campaign by the Christian conservatives. A simple web search on people like Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and other founding fathers confirms their religious beliefs.
Thomas Paine said:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.


Jefferson was not as outspoken, but made clear he did not believe the Bible as a book of fact or in the divinity of Christ.
As for the charges of Obama's Muslim ties, most of that can be corrected by a trip to snopes or factcheck.org.
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:28   #237
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You want Himmler,Vote Dem.'08.
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Old 10-02-2008, 11:16   #238
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You want Himmler,Vote Dem.'08.
What? I don't follow you. Spell it out, point by point.
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Old 10-02-2008, 22:10   #239
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1. Robert Byrd
2. Ted Kennedy
3. Joe Biden
1. An old klansman
2. An old drunk
3. An old joke
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Old 10-03-2008, 07:14   #240
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What? I don't follow you. Spell it out, point by point.
Look into Hitlers rise to power in Germany,that should explain it.'08.
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