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Old 10-06-2008, 20:07   #281
farnhamj
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Originally Posted by meshmdz View Post
The fact is, Obama is leading marginally and is going to win. Its sad that people are more bent on bashing him and his ideas for this nation which are NOT bad. Building the middle class, taxing the rich, lowering gas prices, BUILDING the military (Army by 65,000, Marines by 27,000), making college more affordable for Americans, bringing healthcare to those who arent covered under private plans, and working on environmental incentives to make sure that the environment is taken care of, just to name a few...
Every candidate makes these promises. I want to see a plan. What do you mean by build the middle class?. Taxing the rich is a joke. His plan is to increase tax for anyone who grosses over $250,000. That is more than half the small business owners, the "middle class." How is he going to build the military? Drafting again?
College is affordable for many people. You just have to face the facts that you take out college loans and pay them back when you have a job after graduation. Should we just GIVE money to them to pay for college or make them earn it and appreciate it more.
Healthcare is a joke here. The insurance companies run healthcare. We need more people off medicare/madicade and get real jobs and pay for healthcare themselves. Wanna fix healthcare, fix insurance companies...then again you can't when the lobbiests and politicians are in the ins co pockets. I really don't think that Obama can do that.

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But no, many of you want to bash him and call him un-American, a friend of terrorists, etc...
BUT HE IS!!!! Why do you overlook that a person that wants to be pres of the USA has large ties to terrorists and whose wife is ANTI-USA. Friggin amazing.
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Old 10-06-2008, 21:43   #282
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You think just because someone is a Democrat or votes Democrat that they are going to support the unlawful ban of firearms in the USA? If so, you and many like you are fools. I am a Southern Democrat and have some views that some Democrats share and some that they do not. For one, I dont agree whole-heartedly with Obama's gun control stance. I dont. However, I will not let that stop me from voting for him because McCain is nothing more than 4 more years of Bush and that is NOT what this nation needs. How foolish can you be to say, Im going to vote for someone that I dont think will enact certain gun control measures so I will have my guns... But the economy is going to be worse, the middle class is evaporating into this air, the rich are getting richer, gas prices will continue to soar, more Americans will lose their homes/healthcare/jobs, etc... But BY GOD, my AR-15 will be in my bedroom... Get real.
What is wrong with "the rich getting richer"? What about more people becoming "rich" (ie, millionaires)? Is that a bad thing? The Bush tax cuts allowed people to prosper.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/15/pf/m...ires/index.htm

Return of the millionaires

Report says number of new millionaires jumped 14% in 2003 as the U.S. emerged from recession.
June 15, 2004: 2:20 PM EDT



NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - They're back!

The number of millionaires in the United States surged 14 percent in 2003, to 2.3 million, according to the World-Wide Wealth of High Net Worth Individuals survey released Tuesday by Merrill Lynch and Capgemini.


"High net worth individuals benefited from a strong stock market rally and solid, global economic growth," said James Gorman, president of Merrill Lynch's Global Private Client group. "They were able to capitalize on these trends despite a great deal of geopolitical uncertainty."

In 2002, when the S&P 500 stock index dropped 22 percent, the number of high net worth individuals (defined as those with $1 million or more in investment capital excluding home equity) fell 100,000. The S&P rallied 28.7 percent in 2003.

Worldwide, a half a million individuals joined the millionaire's club, which topped 7.7 million. Their overall wealth topped $28.8 trillion, a jump of 7.7 percent over the year before.

The United States produced the most new millionaires but Hong Kong, at 30 percent, and India, at 22 percent showed the largest percentage gains. China, with a 12 percent jump in millionaires, was right behind the United States.

Europe's elite grew more modestly; the number of new millionaires there climbed just 2.4 percent to a total of 2.6 million.

The report asserted that many of the wealthy returned to stocks last year after, to a large degree, sitting out the stock market decline of 2001. Rather than trying to create new wealth, they opted to preserve their assets during the down times by investing in fixed income vehicles, real estate, and keeping lots of cash.

Many U.S. millionaires benefited from tax law changes undertaken by the Bush administration, according to the report. The Tax Relief Act of 2001 meant a drop in the maximum tax bracket to 35 percent for 2003.

The trend to alternate investments such as hedge funds, which often offer higher returns continued in 2003, increasing to 13 percent of the total invested, up from 10 percent in 2002.

Robert Fairbairn, managing director of Merril Lynch Investment Managers, says "Investment in these has become mainstream in the last three to four years."

The report predicted that the wealth of millionaires would continue to grow at a high rate, 7 percent annually though 2008. North America's wealthy, with 10.7 percent growth, will lead the way.
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Old 10-06-2008, 23:25   #283
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I am done with this thread. The fact is, GW Bush hasnt done jack squat for the middle class and more people becoming millionaires is nice isnt it??? Too bad they only account for less than 2% of the population in the USA. I am done with this thread. You have your thoughts, you know who you are voting for and I know my thoughts and whom I am casting my vote for. Im just regretful that this thread has come to blows amongst Glockers when it has accomplished nothing.
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:25   #284
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I am done with this thread. The fact is, GW Bush hasnt done jack squat for the middle class and more people becoming millionaires is nice isnt it??? Too bad they only account for less than 2% of the population in the USA. I am done with this thread. You have your thoughts, you know who you are voting for and I know my thoughts and whom I am casting my vote for. Im just regretful that this thread has come to blows amongst Glockers when it has accomplished nothing.
Buddy, the only thing a president can do is make this country more attractive for industry to come here, creating more jobs and upward pressure of incomes in order to attract the best and brightest. The president doesn't make jobs or give pay increases, if you believe that is how it works, you don't understand the economy. What exactly do you think Obama is gonna do to make this country more competitive? Do you realize Russia's economy has been growing at an unreal rate? Why do you think that is, do you think it has something to do with the 13% FLAT TAX RATE? Why do you think companies are taking jobs overseas? Our taxes are too high, yet Obama is gonna attract jobs to this country by increasing taxes? I'm mystified as to why so many people who vote democrat actually believe that is gonna work. Do you remember the Carter years? If you ever decide to go to college or go back to college, I recommend taking up Accounting, Finance or Economics.

Regarding GWB, he was clearly a big government guy (code word for quasi socialist), but not as bad as president Obama is gonna be, I can garantee you that. GWB's problem is he wanted his cake and to eat it too. He wanted to cut taxes and spend more, but you can't do both. Obama just wants to flat out spend more (his eventual goal is to move us hard toward socialism), and you can't do that and have the country remain a superpower, and being a superpower is key to having a thriving middle class. I want you to tell me exactly what you believe Obama is gonna do for the middle class? Because I'm stumped on this one.

Btw, if you are a true "Southern Democrat", then you shouldn't even be a democrat anymore, as your party has left you and become the party of the socialist agenda. Blue dogs don't even fit in the democrat party, seriously.
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Old 10-07-2008, 07:38   #285
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I am done with this thread. The fact is, GW Bush hasnt done jack squat for the middle class and more people becoming millionaires is nice isnt it??? Too bad they only account for less than 2% of the population in the USA. I am done with this thread. You have your thoughts, you know who you are voting for and I know my thoughts and whom I am casting my vote for. Im just regretful that this thread has come to blows amongst Glockers when it has accomplished nothing.
Your dam right its nice! Do you mean to tell me, you meshmdz would not want to be a millionare? That less than 2% that are millionares? The vast majority of them got there through hard work, and you two could get there if you have the ambition, that is part of what is so great about capitalism. Low tax rates go hand in hand with prosperity (ie, more "rich people" and a growing middle class). Russia is even more capitalist than we are right now, if we continue to slide toward socialism, they will continue to grow and will trump us economically and militarily within 20 years, garantee it.
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:46   #286
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Buddy, the only thing a president can do is make this country more attractive for industry to come here, creating more jobs and upward pressure of incomes in order to attract the best and brightest. The president doesn't make jobs or give pay increases, if you believe that is how it works, you don't understand the economy. What exactly do you think Obama is gonna do to make this country more competitive? Do you realize Russia's economy has been growing at an unreal rate? Why do you think that is, do you think it has something to do with the 13% FLAT TAX RATE? Why do you think companies are taking jobs overseas? Our taxes are too high, yet Obama is gonna attract jobs to this country by increasing taxes? I'm mystified as to why so many people who vote democrat actually believe that is gonna work. Do you remember the Carter years? If you ever decide to go to college or go back to college, I recommend taking up Accounting, Finance or Economics.

Regarding GWB, he was clearly a big government guy (code word for quasi socialist), but not as bad as president Obama is gonna be, I can garantee you that. GWB's problem is he wanted his cake and to eat it too. He wanted to cut taxes and spend more, but you can't do both. Obama just wants to flat out spend more (his eventual goal is to move us hard toward socialism), and you can't do that and have the country remain a superpower, and being a superpower is key to having a thriving middle class. I want you to tell me exactly what you believe Obama is gonna do for the middle class? Because I'm stumped on this one.

Btw, if you are a true "Southern Democrat", then you shouldn't even be a democrat anymore, as your party has left you and become the party of the socialist agenda. Blue dogs don't even fit in the democrat party, seriously.
Only have one question... why go back so far to Carter...? There was another democrat in the white house since him and he did 2 terms and he left the current dimwit with a surpluss... I would venture to say that, that was the last time the US was fiscally responsible and prosperous.. under a democrat...
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:05   #287
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Only have one question... why go back so far to Carter...? There was another democrat in the white house since him and he did 2 terms and he left the current dimwit with a surpluss... I would venture to say that, that was the last time the US was fiscally responsible and prosperous.. under a democrat...
Because Barack Hussein Obama is as liberal as Carter, to the point where I consider him a socialist. Bill Clinton, was what I would consider a moderate democrat, particularly after his first 2 years (he learned his lesson from the AWB). The republicans gave Bill Clinton the line item veto in 1996, and while it was later ruled unconstitutional, Clinton used it (to his credit, but more importantly to the republicans credit who granted it to him, specifically Bob Dole and John McCain, who sponsored the bill) to cut out lots of fat. That fat he cut, is where the projected surplusses came from. Hmmm, John McCain co-sponsored the line item veto act of 1996? The same act that led to projected surplusses? Dang, I wonder how many voters know that (I'd bet less than 0.5%).

Also, there are only so many things a president can do to effect a capitalist economy, two of them are to lower taxes AND cut spending (this is where Bush raped the US). Technology and innovation is what made the 90s prosperous. While I don't blame Clinton for it, you have to go back to April of the year 2000 to see what was the start of a recession that was passed down to Bush (and believe me, I'm not making excuses for Bush). Albeit, Clinton cut some spending areas I would have left alone and let others go through I would have cut, it demonstrated the line item veto worked. We now need a consitutional amendment that grants the line item veto, and I'd be all for it going through, its a good thing for the country.

Does that answer your question?
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Old 10-08-2008, 13:02   #288
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Because Barack Hussein Obama is as liberal as Carter, to the point where I consider him a socialist. Bill Clinton, was what I would consider a moderate democrat, particularly after his first 2 years (he learned his lesson from the AWB). The republicans gave Bill Clinton the line item veto in 1996, and while it was later ruled unconstitutional, Clinton used it (to his credit, but more importantly to the republicans credit who granted it to him, specifically Bob Dole and John McCain, who sponsored the bill) to cut out lots of fat. That fat he cut, is where the projected surplusses came from. Hmmm, John McCain co-sponsored the line item veto act of 1996? The same act that led to projected surplusses? Dang, I wonder how many voters know that (I'd bet less than 0.5%).

Also, there are only so many things a president can do to effect a capitalist economy, two of them are to lower taxes AND cut spending (this is where Bush raped the US). Technology and innovation is what made the 90s prosperous. While I don't blame Clinton for it, you have to go back to April of the year 2000 to see what was the start of a recession that was passed down to Bush (and believe me, I'm not making excuses for Bush). Albeit, Clinton cut some spending areas I would have left alone and let others go through I would have cut, it demonstrated the line item veto worked. We now need a consitutional amendment that grants the line item veto, and I'd be all for it going through, its a good thing for the country.

Does that answer your question?
Yes it does and very eloquently as well.. now I will fact check this and report back any discrepencies...

another question...

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BUT HE IS!!!! Why do you overlook that a person that wants to be pres of the USA whose wife is ANTI-USA. Friggin amazing.
I'd like to know your response to this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eniG9l_7its

This could be considered ANTI-USA...
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Old 10-08-2008, 13:12   #289
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If you are earning less than $250,000 a year and you are supporting John McCain, you are making a major financial mistake. Every independent group of tax and financial experts from the Tax Policy Center to Factcheck.org has said Barack Obama’s tax plan will provide three times as many cuts as McCain’s plan will to those in the lower and middle class. Don't believe me, check the stats.
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Old 10-08-2008, 13:22   #290
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If you are earning less than $250,000 a year and you are supporting John McCain, you are making a major financial mistake. Every independent group of tax and financial experts from the Tax Policy Center to Factcheck.org has said Barack Obama’s tax plan will provide three times as many cuts as McCain’s plan will to those in the lower and middle class. Don't believe me, check the stats.
He CANNOT cut taxes and accomplish all the other things he has promised. The healthcare promises alone will require everyone to pay more in taxes.
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Old 10-08-2008, 13:37   #291
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He CANNOT cut taxes and accomplish all the other things he has promised. The healthcare promises alone will require everyone to pay more in taxes.
He isnt cutting taxes on people making less than $200,000.00 He is cutting taxes on people making less than 250k and more than 200k. Deny all you want, many McCain supporters and McCain himself are doing it daily. The result, they slip further and further in the polls. Sucks to be an agent of the same.
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Old 10-08-2008, 13:38   #292
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Yea LG, you are right, to hell with all the tax experts from the Tax Policy Center. They are probably communists anyways right? They are unqualified and got their jobs by affirmative action, right?
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Old 10-08-2008, 18:56   #293
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He CANNOT cut taxes and accomplish all the other things he has promised. The healthcare promises alone will require everyone to pay more in taxes.
we are losiing 10 billion a month in a war with Iraq... you stop that war and you have some money there...
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Old 10-08-2008, 23:18   #294
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we are losiing 10 billion a month in a war with Iraq... you stop that war and you have some money there...
Finally, someone decides to mention some real facts. OneGlock19 is correct, but this is not what the Republicans want to hear. They somehow think our economy can sustain hundreds of billions of $ to come for years and years all the while our economy sucks. Check out nations that have a failed economy and see how long their military might lasts.... Its scary.

We are losing 10 billion a month to a war in a nation that doesnt want us there and that has a 79 BILLION dollar surplus. But no, we should stay there and force American taxpayers to fund this war??? Cmon guys, take off the blinders and see things the way they are.
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Old 10-10-2008, 00:31   #295
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Let me see. The choice is between an elder statesmen, who just happens to be a war hero who has proved his character and loyalty by putting his life and limb on the line for Americans, and by passing up the opportunity to be released by his captors so that other prisoners could go home before him. A man who has served with distinction in the Senate for many years and who has been called a "maverick" because of his willingness to fight for what he believes is right, even against his own party. This man has a proven track record and has been able to work across the aisle on important legislation. A man who has been willing to stand up against such formidable and corrupt organizations as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. A man who is willing to admit he has been wrong when he has. A man whose credo has been, Honor, Duty, Country.



The other choice is a member of the US Senate who has not contributed one piece of important legislation in his few years in office. This man votes “Present” more often than not, thus eliminating any possible repercussions for an unpopular vote. This man was trained and coached and mentored by Marxist's such as Saul "The Red" Alinsky. He is affiliated with such corrupt organizations as Accorn. He has had close ties, friendships, with a terrorist husband and wife team who have bombed and actively promoted the overthrow of our great country and a felon who has had questionable financial dealings that benefited him. This man who, according to his own writings, has been mentored by and married by a radical, America hating minister. A man whose wife has not been able to be happy with America, until he ran for the presidency. A man who says he supports our Second Amendment rights while voting for and advocating eliminating this most important right. This man has called for America's surrender and defeat through unconditional withdraw in our ongoing struggle in Iraq. A man who appears to be unable to say that the “Surge” by our honorable military in Iraq has actually worked because it isn’t politically beneficial for him to do so, contrary to all the evidence of the “Surge’s” success.

I served our country in the U S Air Force and learned the principals of “Honor’, Duty and Country”. I’ve spent 36 years in finance and banking in this wonderful country. It wasn't only college economics that taught me why our country's government and economic system is the best in the world and has endured for as long as it has, it was my daily working experiences that taught me what works for our country and what doesn’t. I’ve also learned quite a bit about Marxism and Socialism and the utter failure and misery that these "isms" have brought to the world.

So, let me see. The choice is between an honorable, experienced true American hero who has demonstrated good judgement and good moral fiber or an inexperienced, radical who associates with terrorists and radical organizations that promote revolution and, I almost forgot, voter fraud, and worst of all, has if not a communist leaning, certainly Marxist training and beliefs. He is at best a radical and at worst a Marxist.

I think I’ll go with the American hero and his maverick sidekick.
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Old 10-10-2008, 00:52   #296
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Hell no I don't think he's qualified. He's a socialist puppet through and through. And for the life of me, I still don't understand why people would vote for him. He has never given a straight answer, his views are blatantly socialist, wants the government to intrude on our lives to "help" us and will take our rights away if and when the puppet masters deem it necessary. I swear, he wants to turn our proud country into more of a global subdivision. And still people want to vote for him...

I just don't get it

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Old 10-10-2008, 05:04   #297
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"No" ...
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Old 10-10-2008, 13:43   #298
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How can McCain be a "maverick" when all he has ever been is a side-kick?
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Old 10-10-2008, 14:48   #299
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Old 10-10-2008, 20:57   #300
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Honestly, as I watch this campaign, it looks more and more like a tragedy. I was a huge John McCain fan in 2000. I read his autobiography, I followed his career, I knew people who knew him. I did not agree with him on some issues, I knew he'd messed up royally in the S&L crisis, but I liked him anyway. He was real.
Then GWB used some of the dirtiest most dishonest tactics in history to beat McCain in South Carolina, and McCain, the straight talker, conceeded. Instead of calling W on his b.s., and punching him in the face, he bent over for the guy. He sold out when the GOP told him to hang up his Maverick ways, and they'd let him be the next president. So he gave up the one thing he always had- his independence- for the payoff of the presidency.
Now some of the same people who screwed him in South Carolina (and/or their proteges) are running his campaign. He's doing the same dirty tricks. And, unfortunately, in the last eight years McCain has aged badly. Really badly. He, on tv, has often confused the Shiites and Sunnis, and Afganistan and Iraq. Not once, but several times.
So the sad thing about this campaign is, the man who should have been president in 2000, has diminished, both by age and by choice, to someone unrecognizable in 2008. The sad fact is that the McCain of 2000 would not vote for the McCain of 2008. Honestly, if you told the McCain of 2000 he'd turn out like this in 2008, he would cry.
It's pathetic.
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