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Old 12-01-2008, 03:33   #21
SPDSNYPR
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In a Brooklyn Parking Lot, the End of a Quiet Life
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Hell of a story. Sad all the way around.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:58   #22
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You know, looking over 34 years, I have to ask. When did "reasonable" force replace "necessary" force?
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Old 12-01-2008, 14:31   #23
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1989. Graham vs. Connor. You are familiar with that, and receive regular update training on use of force, including the latest legalities, right?
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Old 12-01-2008, 14:55   #24
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You know, looking over 34 years, I have to ask. When did "reasonable" force replace "necessary" force?
A little after an 'accidental discharge' differed from a 'negligent discharge.' And well before 'slicing the pie' was replaced with 'angluar progression.'
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Old 12-01-2008, 15:31   #25
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1989. Graham vs. Connor. You are familiar with that, and receive regular update training on use of force, including the latest legalities, right?
Ok, listen. I was being SARCASTIC. Referring to the "old" days when policies/sop's were a lot simpler and none of this touchy/feely politically correct crap existed. Force met force. Simple.

Please don't insult my intelligence or work ethic. I have live and work in this era. I think I do a pretty good job of it.
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Old 12-01-2008, 16:56   #26
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BTW - this seems like at least a 200-level course.
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Old 12-01-2008, 18:53   #27
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BTW - this seems like at least a 200-level course.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 12-01-2008, 18:55   #28
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Ok, listen. I was being SARCASTIC. Referring to the "old" days when policies/sop's were a lot simpler and none of this touchy/feely politically correct crap existed. Force met force. Simple.

Please don't insult my intelligence or work ethic. I have live and work in this era. I think I do a pretty good job of it.
Sorry about that. I'm a dumbass and obviously had my humor detector turned off.
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Old 12-01-2008, 19:00   #29
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Cop Talk





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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:19   #30
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TBO- He doesn't have to apologize to me and I don't have to "lighten up" because it did not bother me. Talk to anyone that knows me personally and you'll find I am one of the most even tempered guys around. I don't take words personally. However, when someone thinks I don't know basic 101 police work after 34 years and doesn't listen during in-service training and feel they must educate me I will stick my fat ass in it.

Oh, sorry, got to go, the rookies here and we're out of d-cells and saps.
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Old 01-02-2009, 19:37   #31
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Old 01-02-2009, 20:22   #32
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Great reading!!!!
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:13   #33
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Good post, TBO.

None of the armchair experts ever wants to admit (much less stop and think about) what their real basis of knowledge is on police use of force, including deady force.

They don't wonder why they don't think they know how to write code for a computer, (but if there were as any TV shows and movies about computer programmers as there are about police, they would think they knew all about that, too).

My wife is constantly talking about diseases she hears about on House, never even slowing down when her brother, the doctor, tells her that most of the stuff they say and do in the show is made up.
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:18   #34
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Good post, TBO.

None of the armchair experts ever wants to admit (much less stop and think about) what their real basis of knowledge is on police use of force, including deady force.

They don't wonder why they don't think they know how to write code for a computer, (but if there were as any TV shows and movies about computer programmers as there are about police, they would think they knew all about that, too).

My wife is constantly talking about diseases she hears about on House, never even slowing down when her brother, the doctor, tells her that most of the stuff they say and do in the show is made up.
I feel your pain on the House issue. The wife is always telling me about the insane scenarios on that show. The same thing happens in every episode its just a different disease.

Sorry for hijack. I have had TBO's article saved for quite some time and I read it once in awhile. I also sent it to everyone in my address book. They never wrote back but hey I tried.
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Old 01-04-2009, 14:09   #35
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People watch a few shows on tv and maybe an expose on 60 minutes or PMS-NBC and think they are instant experts and will have no hesitation in arguing with someone who actually is in the field.
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Old 01-04-2009, 14:23   #36
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I like this thread . . . . . but we will not talk badly about House. He's the man. I don't care if it is fiction. I want to grow up to be House. Except more sarcastic.
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Old 01-04-2009, 14:25   #37
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Good read TBO, but It does raise a lot of questions for me. Do I have to have my hat on for it to be reasonable force?
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Old 01-04-2009, 14:32   #38
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I like this thread . . . . . but we will not talk badly about House. He's the man. I don't care if it is fiction. I want to grow up to be House. Except more sarcastic.
House is real. I had dinner with him last week. Trust me, you will never be more sarcastic than him, just as you cannot kick more ass than Chuck Norris. It is beyond the laws of physics to allow for the possibility.
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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Old 01-04-2009, 15:04   #39
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House is real. I had dinner with him last week. Trust me, you will never be more sarcastic than him, just as you cannot kick more ass than Chuck Norris. It is beyond the laws of physics to allow for the possibility.
Fine. Ruin my fun. Those were my two goals in life. Now I have nothing . . . .

Guess now I need to work on being a faster revolver shooter than Jerry Miculek and a better rifle shooter than David Tubbs. I should have it down by sometime next week.
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Old 01-04-2009, 15:28   #40
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You shouldn't need a whole week unless you take a few days off for cigarettes and beer.
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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