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Old 07-24-2010, 15:20   #1101
scratchy wilson
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I took the magazine catch spring out of the G34, and got it in the Timberwolf frame without issue. Seems to work fine. I want to shorten the rear pin; the excess length is irritating just by holding it.
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Old 07-24-2010, 16:18   #1102
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Originally Posted by MrVvrroomm View Post
A picture would be worth 1000 words. Thanks!
Hope this helps. The foam I used was very dense and 1/4" thick. I did cut it down to about 3/16" before I stuck it in. I have not had the backstrap come free unless I wanted it too. I practiced 100 mag changes to familiarize my self with the gun and all was good.

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Last edited by WDN; 07-25-2010 at 14:04..
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Old 07-24-2010, 16:53   #1103
MrVvrroomm
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Editing to add new info to my a previous post

My second build is a Gen 3 fish gill 22 slide using a .357sig barrel and magazines.

Pics at bottom

Overall appearance of frame
I like the look, it's something different
Overall grip texture comfortable front, back, side
I really like the texture, almost as much as I like the rtf2 finish
Any discomfort (chafing) regarding the texture?
No, I have man hands, I work for a living
Spacing in finger grips comfortable
fine, just fine
Beavertail comfortable? Too long, short, just right?
The beavertail is great!
Was the mag catch comfortable? Reliable?
Mag catch is comfortable, easy to reach. I only brought two of my G31 mags with me to the range. The LW mag catch held these magazines without issue

Does the color appear to be black? If not, how would you describe the color?
No, it looks like a charcoal gray to me
What colors would you like to see offered?
Black would be nice. I'm not a big colored gun guy.

Were the grips easy to install? Remove?
Mine were actually too easy. They both were coming while doing mag changes.
Describe the flat grip feel (similar to 1911?)
1911ish, but not exactly
Describe the swelled grip feel (similar to XD?)
More Glockish than the flat grip
Which grip is your favorite flat or swelled?
I prefer the swelled grip, not only for its feel, but also for its appearance
Do you consider your hands to be large, medium, small?
Large & meaty
Any issues with the grip accidently unlocking?
Yes, a more positive retention device is needed. I added some foam tape behind the latch hook on both backstraps as per a previous post. Great idea. They do not come loose now

Did you use your Glock receiver parts to build the Timber Wolf frame?
Yes
Any issues installing the factory parts?
Zero issues
Did you use any aftermarket parts to build the TimberWolf frame?
No
Any issues installing the aftermarket parts?
n/a
Did you use a factory slide or aftermarket slide? Manufacture?
this is my second build G22 with .357sig barrel and mags, first was G37 .45 GAP
Any issues with the slide to frame rail fit?
Mine fits fine
Did you use a factory barrel or aftermarket barrel? Manufacture?
oem Glock 31 barrel
Did you use a factory magazine or aftermarket magazine? Manufacture?
oem

What caliber did you choose 9/40/357/GAP
.357sig
Was the ammunition factory produced or reloaded
with the exception of a few rounds, I load my own ammo
What was the bullet weight?
50 rds of Hornady 90gr HP/XTP, 50 rds of Speer 125gr JFP
What model did you build the frame into 17,17L,22,24,31,34,35,37
22/31

Overall feel of the complete assembled gun
I really like the overall feeling of it
Does the gun naturally point on target
Yes, it points well
Did the trigger pull change?
No
Is the trigger reset acceptable
It feels like a Glock, I like it

Did you use the accessory rail?
Yeah, I used it to scratch an itch I had in the middle of my back

Did you use a holster?
yes
Who is the manufacture? Model#
Describe the holster fit, as intended, poor?
It fits well in a Fobus for just carrying it around the range


Did the TimberWolf shoot well.
Yes, it shoots well
Describe the muzzle rise, more or less than the factory frame?
It's hard to tell on the .357sig rounds. I put a LOT of powder in them
Did you notice a change in recoil, better, worse?
recoil is about the same to me
Did the bullet impact change?
not whatsoever, the bullet goes exactly where the barrel is pointed
How many rounds did you fire of each caliber.
250 rounds through it so far, more to come

Did you experience any specific problems.
all noted above. I'll be editing this post as my round count progresses
Do you have any suggestions regarding changes or additions to the frame?
non-secure backstraps are an issue to me right now. I have solved the non-secure backstrap problem for now

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Old 07-24-2010, 18:36   #1104
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I picked my frame up this morning from my FFL. It had arrived right before I did. It is S/N Proto 148. My FFL recorded the caliber as "unknown" as he knew it could be assembled as 9x19, .357 SIG, .40 S&W, and/or .45 GAP. He asked quite a few questions about it. He also did not charge me to transfer the frame as I am a frequent customer (see below).

I also picked up a new 3rd Generation G17 I had on layaway as a parts donor for this test, and this gun was transferred to me on the same Form 4473. I spent about 3.5 hours this afternoon and evening stripping the G17, installing parts in the Timberwolf frame, testing, and recording impressions/issues. Someone who is more experienced in detail strips and assembly would have needed less time than me, but I am an engineer who is used to working slowly with new parts. Until tonight, I had never fully detailed stripped a Glock, so I was in no hurry to do it. Not to mention, it is still over 90 degrees here, so shooting was not going to be fun until the morning. The magazine catch and spring cost me close to an hour, and I spent a bit of time with the disassembly catch spring. I also played a bit with the slide stop.

More Thoughts

This is a really nice alternative to the factory Glock frame, and so far it appears to not be suffering from the kinds of issues that have detracted from the CCF. The 1911 feel is an improvement over the factory frame. The magazine release button is easier for my short fingers to actuate. I really like the feel of the gun in the hands while shooting. It feels less "blocky" than the factory frame, and the trigger reach seems to be a bit shorter. I think shooters with larger hands will prefer the "swelled" grip insert.

For a Beta prototype, the TimberWolf is remarkably polished. It has exceeded my expectations. The fact that there are so few issues, all of which are minor, is impressive to me.

Overall appearance of frame
I like the looks of the frame. Very business-like. The RMS finish on the frame is a bit more matte than a factory frame.

Overall grip texture comfortable front, back, side
So far, so good. I need to shoot it in the morning to provide better feedback. [eta]Grip texture is good, but the parting line for the mold has mold flash. It is causing some abrasion, especially on the underside of the trigger guard near the relief to allow a higher grip. See my second picture for the mold flash. This is something I can easily fix, but the injection molding house needs to watch their process.[/eta]

Any discomfort (chafing) regarding the texture?
TBD[eta] No, the grip is surprisingly comfortable and provides good traction without abrading my hands.[/eta]

Spacing in finger grips comfortable
Yes, surprisingly so. I would prefer no finger grooves. [/eta]I really like the original 1st Generation frame without the finger grooves. The CCF frame has an edge here over the prototype TimberWolf frame. The grooves are less obnoxious than the 3rd Generation frame, so I guess this was a design compromise. [/eta]

Beavertail comfortable? Too long, short, just right?
I like how high I can get on the frame. It might be a bit too long for my small hands. [eta] The beavertail is comfortable for me. Quite controllable. It could stand to be a bit shorter as it extends quite a bit back from the rear of the slide. There is no way to get slide bite with this frame.[/eta]

Was the mag catch comfortable? Reliable?
Yes, quite easy to use and very 1911-like. I need to see how reliabily it retains magazines when shooting. It does seem to need less force to actuate compared to the factory frame and release. [eta]Mine holds the magazines well yet is easy to release. [/eta]

Does the color appear to be black?
Yes, it is a nice carbon black. Perhaps a bit more charcoal than the factory frame although the RMS differences make it hard to be precise. It is more matte than the factory frame, so it appears more grey.

If not, how would you describe the color
N/A

What colors would you like to see offered?
Not sure. My daughter would love a pink frame.

Were the grips easy to install? Remove?
Yes, the grips were easy to install. I needed a small flat blade screwdriver to remove the grips.

Describe the flat grip feel (similar to 1911?)
Very much like a 1911.

Describe the swelled grip feel (similar to XD?)
I have not tried an XD, so no comment on that comparison. The swelled grip reminds me of a S&W 4506 with the curved grips.

Which grip is your favorite flat or swelled?
Flat. [eta]Shooting reinforced the idea that the flat grip is better for my small hands and short fingers.[/eta]

Do you consider your hands to be large, medium, small?
Extremely small. Very short fingers.

Any issues with the grip accidently unlocking?
Not yet. More to follow after shooting in the morning. [eta]Grips are secure during shooting. The grip snaps nicely into the frame. On my frame, the magazines all seem to drop free. All of my magazines have the #6 follower. I wonder if I am not seeing the issue with the grip inserts unlocking because the magazines drop free as I have observed that tighter mag well dimensions, inferred from magazines not dropping free, correlate with issues with the grip inserts unlocking. [/eta]

Did you use your Glock receiver parts to build the Timber Wolf frame?
Yes. I stripped a never-fired Glock 17, serial number NLD0xx, that I picked up with the Timberwolf frame this morning.

Any issues installing the factory parts?
Yes, the locking block from the factory G17 did not fit. I spent 30 minutes trying and finally got the calipers. Luckily, I had ordered a spare locking block from LWD that did fit. The Glock locking blocks seem to not be as tightly controlled as one might expect as the locking block in the donor G17 is wider than the locking block I ordered from LWD. I expect this is going to be an issue for some as the locking block out of my new G17 was 0.002" wider. Yet, it slipped into and out of the donor G17 frame with no issues. I also watched the video showing the proper method of installing the locking block into the Timberwolf frame, so I tried to install the locking block from the donor G17 after the frame had already had another locking block installed. No dice; the donor locking block from NLD0xx is just too wide for the TimberWolf frame.

The trigger housing pin is a bit too long for the frame, so I played with it to get it centered in the frame. I guess that is one of the sacrifices needed for a smaller grip circumference. [eta] I will shorten this pin by about 0.010" to avoid irritation.[/eta]

Did you use any aftermarket parts to build the TimberWolf frame?
No, I used all OEM parts.

Any issues installing the aftermarket parts?
N/A

Did you use a factory slide or aftermarket slide? Manufacture?
So far, I am sticking with the factory slide. I do have a Robar/CCF slide that I will try once I finish testing the factory slide.

Any issues with the slide to frame rail fit?
No. The fit seems a bit tighter than the factory gun. I did use some Slide Glide on the rails to make it feel smoother to me. [eta]I did find a bit of mold flash on the right rear frame rail. I removed it with an Exacto knife.

Did you use a factory barrel or aftermarket barrel? Manufacture?
Factory G17 barrel.

Did you use a factory magazine or aftermarket magazine? Manufacture?
Factory magazines. I have 22 of them.[eta]No issues with any magazines failing to drop free. The magazine release is easy to use and seems to require less force than the factory release.[/eta]

What caliber did you choose 9/40/357/GAP?
9x19

Was the ammunition factory produced or reloaded?
Factory for now.

What was the bullet weight?
115-grain WWB and 124-grain Remington Golden Sabre.

What model did you build the frame into 17,17L,22,24,31,34,35,37?
G17

Overall feel of the complete assembled gun?
Very nice. Much lighter than the CCF gun yet very 1911-like.

Does the gun naturally point on target?
Yes, it points like a 1911!!!

Did the trigger pull change?
No, pull seems identical. I need to polish my new parts.

Is the trigger reset acceptable?
Yes, very crisp for a Glock. Almost as good as my Robar Alloy Extreme.

Did you use the accessory rail?
Not yet.

What accessory was attached and who is the manufacture?
N/A

Did the accessory fit well, was it secure?
N/A

Did you shoot the frame with the accessory attached?
N/A

Was performance or reliability affected in any way?
N/A

Did you use a holster?
Yes

Who is the manufacture? Model#
Alessi/Heinie DOJ

Describe the holster fit, as intended, poor?
Good fit for me. More tomorrow. [eta]Holster fit is good. No issues with drawing or retention. [/eta]

Did the TimberWolf shoot well?
We will find out in the morning? [eta]Yes.[/eta]

Describe the muzzle rise, more or less than the factory frame?
N/A [eta]Much less muzzle rise compared to a Glock 17. Not as damped as the all-steel CCF frame, but no surprise there.[/eta]

Did you notice a change in recoil, better, worse?
TBD [eta]No change in perceived recoil.[/eta]

Did the bullet impact change?
TBD [eta]No.[/eta]

How many rounds did you fire of each caliber.
I plan to shoot five hundred round in the morning. [eta]I shot 583 rounds this morning out of the Timberwolf. I would have shot more, but the temperatures are over 95 right now. Too hot to concentrate.[/eta]

Did you experience any specific problems?
Locking block fit. The one from my new G17 is too wide for the frame. [eta]I had one engagement of the slide stop with 115-grain WWB in the magazine. I could not duplicate the failure. I did remove and reinstall the slide lock, but I saw nothing amiss.[/eta]

Do you have any suggestions regarding changes or additions to the frame?
It might make sense to ship the frame with the magazine catch and spring installed as the Timberwolf magazine catch is frame-specific.

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Last edited by farscott; 07-25-2010 at 14:57.. Reason: Added input from this morning's range session.
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Old 07-24-2010, 22:29   #1105
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Originally Posted by scratchy wilson View Post
I took the magazine catch spring out of the G34, and got it in the Timberwolf frame without issue. Seems to work fine. I want to shorten the rear pin; the excess length is irritating just by holding it.
I don't think it's the magazine catch spring. I did the same with my G34 spring and it fits fine, didn't need to file it down. It is very easy to release the magazine. Doesn't take much. At least for my sample.

Don't know if the actual magazine catch is just barely holding the magazine or what.
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Old 07-24-2010, 23:04   #1106
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i'm upset...my tw frame is bouncing from random sorting stations in the NW and my ffl wasn't home to sign for the frame yesterday. SERENITY NOW!!!!
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Old 07-25-2010, 12:24   #1107
scratchy wilson
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Originally Posted by ainokea View Post
I don't think it's the magazine catch spring. I did the same with my G34 spring and it fits fine, didn't need to file it down. It is very easy to release the magazine. Doesn't take much. At least for my sample.

Don't know if the actual magazine catch is just barely holding the magazine or what.
My magazine catch spring issue was operator error. I'd never taken a Glock completely down or built one either. I had no idea that it had any farther to go, and saw a warning not to force it, but that more to do with the G26.

The new issue is the trigger housing pin sticking out on either side of the frame. That's really annoying.
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Old 07-25-2010, 12:31   #1108
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I shot 30 rounds yesterday to ensure basic function and then today I shot the local IDPA match ~100 rounds with a G17 top end. Function was 100% to include strong hand only and fired from retention. I ran the match with 11 KCI mags and one Glock mag. I had one mag I had to pull out that did not drop free. I didn't think to see what mag it was.

After the match I loaded the pistol then carried it concealed out to lunch and such. Not sure If I was the first to carry it concealed. I did notice once while carrying concealed the mag was not seated so I guess something pressed the mag release hard enough to release the mag. I am left handed so the mag release faces out. I was carrying in a blackhawk kydex holster and the release is not covered in that holster. So far I think I would like the mag release to be harder but will shoot it more.
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Old 07-25-2010, 13:42   #1109
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I just picked up my frame this afternoon. Looks good so far. I really like the color and the texture is great. The interchangeable back straps do seem to come off quite easily as others have stated. I have 2000 rounds just waiting to be shot. I'll keep you all posted.
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Old 07-25-2010, 14:11   #1110
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Jon_R,
How do the KCI mags work for you. Do they consistantly drop free for you? Do they jam at all?
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Old 07-25-2010, 14:39   #1111
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Jon_R,
How do the KCI mags work for you. Do they consistently drop free for you? Do they jam at all?
I run KCI mags in my G17 (Gen 2,3 and 4), in my G35 converted to 9mm, and in my Gen 3 G19 and they have been 100% for me and dropping free. When I got them I dissembled them and cleaned up any extra bits of plastic that they might have had. I have not come to the conclusion that KAHN and KCI are the same thing. All mine are KCI or Glock and what I stick with. After initial testing I am just as comfortable with the KCI mags as I am with the Glock Mags and I do not concern myself which I grab. I have two old mags that came with the G2 G17 and they actually don't work well in my G4 G17 and don't drop free in my LW Frame so I may pull them out and store them so I don't have to worry about grabbing them by mistake.

I have not tried any of the .40 caliber KCI mags from reading online they have not been as good as the 9mm ones but no 1st hand knowledge.

The reason I use KCI is it allows me to have lots of them. Today it was me and two kids shooting 9mm Glocks (One was LW Pistol technically) at the IDPA match. We each needed 12 mags to shoot the match without having to reload mags so we brought 36 (24 G17 and 12 G19) mags to the range loaded with 10 rounds per. At $6 per mag for KCI it works out.

To keep the post on-topic I was told I would have to shoot in ESP for IDPA with the frame. There is a 2000 sold per year requirement for SSP. LW Can use it as marketing. Per IDPA it is unfair to use a LW Frame against Glock Pistols. The LW Frame is to enhanced to be allowed to compete against stock pistols.

Last edited by Jon_R; 07-25-2010 at 14:41..
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Old 07-25-2010, 14:57   #1112
scratchy wilson
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It's not pretty, but I trimmed down the trigger housing pin. Just hope I left enough that it won't start walking out. Doesn't look like I'll be able to get to try it out until next weekend though. :crylikeender:
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Old 07-25-2010, 15:16   #1113
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I got mine put together last night. My G17 Gen3 locking block would not fit but my Gen2 G22 locking block went in with a hard push.

A couple of issues - loaded G22 mags get tighter in the magwell the more rounds are loaded - they must swell just a bit and it is difficult to remove. Empty mags drop free.

With light loads in 40SW the grip panel stays in place but with defensive loads the grip panel releases and the mag releases too - I think my finger is hitting the mag release which is very easy to release.

So - I like it. Needs work on the back grip, my magwell is too tight and the mag release needs a firmer spring or it projects too far or both.

Points well - I want to try it with my daughter who has small hands - she could not handle the regular Glock grip size - this may be the ticket.

Last edited by solvability; 07-25-2010 at 15:16..
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Old 07-25-2010, 16:01   #1114
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A couple of things I'd like to see....

a stronger mag release spring
a trimmed down trigger housing pin (could modify my own, no biggie)
a more positive method of backstrap retention, had it unseat itself during a mag change. Will try the foam tape idea.


Range session today consisted of 500 rounds of Winchester White Box 115gr.
Bag partially empty, 30 rounds of 5.56 mixed in bag from where I had emptied an AR mag.
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0 stoppages, 0 failures, 500 flawless rounds down range.

Started off on the 50 yard range since it was empty. Sent 100 rounds down range into the backstop for function.

Next moved to the 25 yard range dug a used target out of the garbage can so that I had something to shoot at besides a piece of 4 x 8 particle board. :lol:

Shot that up, and pulled out a paper plate and proceeded to fill it full of holes.

Showed off the Timber Wolf framed GLOCK 17 to a few guys who showed up at the 25 yrd range. They weren't familiar with GLOCKs but liked it.

Had one mag left to shoot when another guy showed up and asked what I was shooting and he showed me his new FN 5.7 pistol. It still had the tags on it. He went back to his bench and took the tags off, loaded a mag, stood up to shoot and FLINCH, click. He fumbled around a bit and sat down, pulled the mag out, racked the slide, picked up the cartridge. You could tell he wasn't familiar with it at all. I shot my last mag and left.

As I was leaving the first guy I had talked to said "you sure dug a nice hole in the dirt behind the target".

Next session will try my 34 slide and LWD slide.

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Last edited by mvician; 07-25-2010 at 16:21..
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Old 07-25-2010, 20:03   #1115
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A couple of things I'd like to see....


a trimmed down trigger housing pin (could modify my own, no biggie)
Hey, what size is the G36's?
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Old 07-25-2010, 20:09   #1116
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Hey, what size is the G36's?
Or the Gen 4s might be a match. I will pull the pin from my G4 G17 and see how it fits.
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Old 07-25-2010, 21:13   #1117
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Guys! Regarding the questions.... please answer them on our official web site. TBA very soon.
FYI: I posted the questions here to see if you guys thought of any more relevant questions.
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Old 07-25-2010, 23:28   #1118
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Magwell

EDITed to add: After considerable sanding on a Khan Asian Contract Mag, it is still too tight to be usable in my Timber wolf.
The majority of my Glock OEN mags were very tight fits, and hard to extract without the front and rear cutouts of the OEM frames. Without the cutouts the magwell definetly needs to be wider to accomadate a greater difference in both OEM mag generations and aftermarket mags. Since the asian KCI(Good) and Khan Mags(bad- larger dimensions) don't seem to be going anywhere any time soon and there is a plethora on the market and in owners hands.
END EDIT

My magwell needed to be opened up some for best mag extraction. If a mag gets stuck it is very diffiscult to extract in any kind of timely fashion with the cutouts in the mag well.


I began by coloring the top half a 10rnd G22 mag with a red dry erase marker, then pushing it in and out a few times to see where it was rubbing the most.

Top area about in the center on both sides. Actually it was rubbing alot with loaded mags. Took some 50 grit and finger sanded the inside sides and, just a touch on the rear, a little bit at a time is CRITICAL.

Try and keep the strokes parallel with the direction of the magwell. (don't go circular lotion or side to side) It makes cleaning up the sanding scratches much harder then going with the grain, and more scratches for your mags to catch on with cross scratches

Sand 10 stokes and check with mag. Always remeber to refresh the color on the mag where it rubs off.

Then go to 5 strokes and check once you start feeling a difference in the mag insertion.

I then went to 120, and 240, then 500.
Finished with rubbing the inside down with break free, and 3 in 1oil to pick up the loose particulates and slick up the mag well. Inside very smooth now.

Most of my Glock "Drop free" Mags now drop free. only a couple of LE mags that don't.

Khan .40S&W Mags won't drop free and still get stuck hard to the point of unusable. I may try and sand the sides of one down to get it to work.

KCI 9mm work great.

Definite difference in quality between the Khan vs KCI mags.

Fired 200 .40S&W only issue is the backstrap coming loose on reloads. I only ran into this so far with the curved back strap.

next testing set for 9mm custom top end for Wednesday
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Old 07-26-2010, 10:41   #1119
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Anybody else still listed as Awaiting Back Order?
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Old 07-26-2010, 13:06   #1120
chakup
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 521
Quote:
Originally Posted by TcRoc View Post
Anybody else still listed as Awaiting Back Order?
Yep! Sadly but excited.
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