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Old 02-09-2012, 06:53   #1
eracer
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Reciprocity question

Does anyone know why certain states have reciprocity with some, but not with others?

It drives me crazy that I can't carry in Nevada, but someone from Ohio can.

I'm not being flippant here - I really can't come up with a logical reason for selective reciprocity.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:56   #2
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this may help you
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:20   #3
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In a nutshell...requirements. Most commonly...training.

Case in point, South Carolina. SC, like many other states, requires that a person receive a little bit of training before being given a CWP. And they happily reciprocate with any state that has similar requirements for getting a CWP. Since SC's neighbor, GA, does not require any type of training whatsoever...SC does not honor a GA CWP. And since SC does not honor a GA CWP...GA does not honor a SC CWP. Same with all the others. Some states have certain requirements for obtaining a CWP and they have also written the reciprocity part of the law such that they only reciprocate with States that have similar requirements.

Given the number of people that have been arrested for having a gun somewhere that they cannot legally have one...it really is no surprise that several States want anyone with a CWP to have had a day of training where they are informed of such legalities...
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:24   #4
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^^ Thanks ^^
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:27   #5
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NRS 202.3689 Department to prepare list of states that meet certain requirements concerning permits; Department to provide copy of list to law enforcement agencies in this State; Department to make list available to public.

1. On or before July 1 of each year, the Department shall:

(a) Examine the requirements for the issuance of a permit to carry a concealed firearm in each state and determine whether the requirements of each state are substantially similar to or more stringent than the requirements set forth in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive.

(b) Determine whether each state has an electronic database which identifies each individual who possesses a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm issued by that state and which a law enforcement officer in this State may access at all times through a national law enforcement telecommunications system.

(c) Prepare a list of states that meet the requirements of paragraphs (a) and (b). A state must not be included in the list unless the Nevada Sheriffs’ and Chiefs’ Association agrees with the Department that the state should be included in the list.

(d) Provide a copy of the list prepared pursuant to paragraph (c) to each law enforcement agency in this State.

2. The Department shall, upon request, make the list prepared pursuant to subsection 1 available to the public.

(Added to NRS by 2007, 3150)
Another rather common one that eliminates a lot of places is the requirement for a list of valid permits available 24/7 through a national database. Some states keep their records in the county issued and it's a paper list. You have to call and get a person to go look it up.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:27   #6
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I didn't see anything on that page that told me why Nevada won't honor my Florida permit. It does show that both states are 'Shall Issue.'

But thanks for the reference anyway.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:33   #7
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Originally Posted by eracer View Post
I didn't see anything on that page that told me why Nevada won't honor my Florida permit. It does show that both states are 'Shall Issue.'

But thanks for the reference anyway.
Nevada dropped FL when it went to 7 years for permits vs. 5. That is what I read.

FL honors any states permit that honors FLs permits at least for residents of that state. I like FL's process for that makes it pretty easy. You take ours we will take yours.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:58   #8
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And MN won't take either WI, ND or FL because there are ways around having to do a class and live fire exercise. One also must take into account that the politicians are deciding what certain words mean in the laws, so "substantially similar" becomes "As or more restrictive."
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:08   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eracer View Post
Does anyone know why certain states have reciprocity with some, but not with others?

It drives me crazy that I can't carry in Nevada, but someone from Ohio can.

I'm not being flippant here - I really can't come up with a logical reason for selective reciprocity.
I feel your pain!

I lived in Nevada for 26 years, my personal family is there... and Arizona lost reciprocity with them a few years ago when they dropped the round count for qual to 10!

National reciprocity is the only thing that makes sense.

Patrick
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Old 02-09-2012, 09:54   #10
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And just a note: The Republic of New York is too elitist to accept any others states CCW permit but their own.
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:01   #11
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National Reciprocity would have prevented this.
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:43   #12
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Originally Posted by HerrGlock View Post
Another rather common one that eliminates a lot of places is the requirement for a list of valid permits available 24/7 through a national database. Some states keep their records in the county issued and it's a paper list. You have to call and get a person to go look it up.
Interesting point HerrGlock. See my post number 19 and others in this thread.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1397558

So how does one find out if MO makes a list of valid permits available through a national data base? I know for sure the MO permits are all entered in MULES. Does MO make that list available to officers in other states?

Of course Illinois doesn't honor anyones permit anyway, but I'd sure like to know the answer.
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Old 02-09-2012, 11:20   #13
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Originally Posted by Caver 60 View Post
Interesting point HerrGlock. See my post number 19 and others in this thread.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1397558

So how does one find out if MO makes a list of valid permits available through a national data base? I know for sure the MO permits are all entered in MULES. Does MO make that list available to officers in other states?

Of course Illinois doesn't honor anyones permit anyway, but I'd sure like to know the answer.
Directly, I don't know. Ask a MO cop would be my suggestion.

However, if you go around the corner, so to speak, you can get an idea that it is available 24/7.

Check this West Virginia law that was passed:

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/bill_st...type=RS&i=3314

Quote:
§61-7-6a. Reciprocity; out-of-state concealed handgun permits.
(...)
(2) This state's law-enforcement officers have continuous access to data bases on the criminal information network, twenty-four hours per day, seven days per week, to verify the continued validity of any license or permit to carry a concealed handgun that has been granted by the issuing state;
(...)
Now look at the states the AG accepts
http://www.wvago.gov/gunrecep.cfm

Full Reciprocity
(...)
Missouri

With that, my guess is yes there is a database that is reachable 24/7 to check the status of a permit in MO.
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Old 02-09-2012, 13:06   #14
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There are a lot of factors. Mostly it has to do with the requirements to get the permit. A lot of times, training, age, etc. Some states are statutory in that they will honor any state's permit that honors theirs. Or the state will simply allow any permit issued by any state. Some states are stricter than others. MN for example will not honor ND permit because even though the training, age, etc. are pretty much the same, there are crime disqualifications (DUI, felony, etc) that ND does not have as a disqualifier. And since ND only honors states who honor theirs a MN resident cannot carry there and likewise for a ND resident. I lived in MN over the summer about an hour away from Fargo. Many people from ND would go back and forth. Not to mention Moorhead, MN and Fargo are almost the same city.
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Old 02-09-2012, 13:10   #15
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Thanks HerrGlock You have confirmed my suspicions. I do know that MO prohibits public release of the CCW information. I.E. the newspaper can't print a list of licensees, and I can't check to see if my neighbor has a license.

But official agencies can certainly check. For instance when I renew my CCW license the License Office checks MULES first, to be sure the sheriff has correctly entered the info, before they make the new card for me.

But in the previously thread that I referenced, drobs (in his post number 18) seemed pretty positive that the information wouldn't come up if an Illinois LEO ran your MO drivers license on a routine traffic stop.

Quote drobs: "There is no CCW in Illinois. Illinois is not able to tell if you have a CCW license, they can not pull it up on their computer system. It means nothing to them but could lead to harassment."

I'm not sure if a MO officer would know if the info would come up in Illinois or not? I strongly suspect it would, since the MO CCW permit number is IDENTICAL to the MO drivers license number, even though both are on separate cards. Although in MO you can get the CCW put on the drivers license card if you want to.

I choose to use separate cards for check cashing/other non LEO interactions like voting etc., where I have to show the license to prove my identity. My last speeding ticket was in 1967, but if I'm ever stopped again, I personally plan to hand over both cards to the LEO. MO doesn't require disclosure, unless asked. But I'd rather do the telling than have the officer do the asking. JMO
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Old 02-09-2012, 13:13   #16
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Thanks HerrGlock You have confirmed my suspicions. I do know that MO prohibits public release of the CCW information. I.E. the newspaper can't print a list of licensees, and I can't check to see if my neighbor has a license.

But official agencies can certainly check. For instance when I renew my CCW license the License Office checks MULES first, to be sure the sheriff has correctly entered the info, before they make the new card for me.

But in the previously thread that I referenced, drobs (in his post number 18) seemed pretty positive that the information wouldn't come up if an Illinois LEO ran your MO drivers license on a routine traffic stop.

Quote drobs: "There is no CCW in Illinois. Illinois is not able to tell if you have a CCW license, they can not pull it up on their computer system. It means nothing to them but could lead to harassment."

I'm not sure if a MO officer would know if the info would come up in Illinois or not? I strongly suspect it would, since the MO CCW permit number is IDENTICAL to the MO drivers license number, even though both are on separate cards. Although in MO you can get the CCW put on the drivers license card if you want to.

I choose to use separate cards for check cashing/other non LEO interactions like voting etc., where I have to show the license to prove my identity. My last speeding ticket was in 1967, but if I'm ever stopped again, I personally plan to hand over both cards to the LEO. MO doesn't require disclosure, unless asked. But I'd rather do the telling than have the officer do the asking. JMO
Now you're asking a different question.

I have no idea if your CCW comes up if you get pulled over in a different state. Personally, I'd ask a cop in another state to run my license and ask if it does before I made any assumption about it at all.
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Old 02-09-2012, 14:09   #17
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Well, it's good to see that most states will honor a Louisiana CWP. I will probably get one very soon and the local place that gives the class says its 9 hours long! Can't wait.
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Old 02-09-2012, 18:12   #18
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Does anyone know why certain states have reciprocity with some, but not with others?

It drives me crazy that I can't carry in Nevada, but someone from Ohio can.

I'm not being flippant here - I really can't come up with a logical reason for selective reciprocity.
In case you didn't know, as a FL resident you are free to obtain permits from other states besides FL. Usually your non-resident permit will be accepted in other states just like a resident permit but ymmv. Then if a state doesn't accept your FL permit, perhaps they will accept your UT, PA, or NH permit.
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Old 02-09-2012, 18:20   #19
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It's good to be from MO. I think we're up to 38 states now.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:48   #20
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It's good to be from MO. I think we're up to 38 states now.
Michigan is still #1. MI license is recognized in every state that recognizes other states permits.
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